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> For one, there's no official specification I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification: https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/59685 https://webstore.iec

> For one, there's no official specification I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification: https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/59685 https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/59685 > and isn't as powerful as I'd always want it to be Do you have examples? There is a lot in SQL that is not commonly known—if you let me know what you are thinking of, I might be able to show you an adequate SQL feature.

rm999 8y ago
>I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification Fair enough, but I'd argue it's not a de facto standard because the vast majority of implementers don't follow it. Case in point: SQL is rarely portable across databases, even if you're e.g. moving from postgres to a postgres-like system like bigquery or redshift. >Do you have examples? For me (as a machine learning + data engineer) it often comes up around aggregating with window functions. Things that would take a couple lines in R or Python or Scala can take dozen of extra lines with superfluous CTEs.
- MarkusWinand 8y ago
  Ah, "dozen of extra lines" is not exactly what I was expecting for "isn't as powerful" ;)
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Dozen of extra lines most probably means it's also suboptimally executed.
    - MechanicalTwerk 8y ago
      I don't know...optimizers are pretty good at rewriting and planning nowadays.
    - kthejoker2 8y ago
      Declarative languages are almost always more verbose than imperative languages. Not sure why you'd use LOC to compare across them when they have readily available execution engine planners with stats and everything.
- nodelessness 8y ago
  By that logic, is there anything at all in the realm of APIs and tools that is standardized then? HTML mark up? Regular expressions?
- cglace 8y ago
  There are things I can do in SQL in one line that would take dozens in python. I don't see your point.
- Jedd 8y ago
  > > > For one, there's no official specification. > > I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification > Fair enough, but I'd argue it's not a de facto standard... It may be useful to understand the distinction between official (de jure) and common usage (de facto).
TomMarius 8y ago
200 CHF for a programming language specification? Is it 1995?

rm999 8y ago

>I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification Fair enough, but I'd argue it's not a de facto standard because the vast majority of implementers don't follow it. Case in point: SQL is rarely portable across databases, even if you're e.g. moving from postgres to a postgres-like system like bigquery or redshift. >Do you have examples? For me (as a machine learning + data engineer) it often comes up around aggregating with window functions. Things that would take a couple lines in R or Python or Scala can take dozen of extra lines with superfluous CTEs.

MarkusWinand 8y ago
Ah, "dozen of extra lines" is not exactly what I was expecting for "isn't as powerful" ;)
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Dozen of extra lines most probably means it's also suboptimally executed.
  - MechanicalTwerk 8y ago
    I don't know...optimizers are pretty good at rewriting and planning nowadays.
  - kthejoker2 8y ago
    Declarative languages are almost always more verbose than imperative languages. Not sure why you'd use LOC to compare across them when they have readily available execution engine planners with stats and everything.
nodelessness 8y ago
By that logic, is there anything at all in the realm of APIs and tools that is standardized then? HTML mark up? Regular expressions?
cglace 8y ago
There are things I can do in SQL in one line that would take dozens in python. I don't see your point.
Jedd 8y ago
> > > For one, there's no official specification. > > I'd take ISO/IEC 9075 as an official specification > Fair enough, but I'd argue it's not a de facto standard... It may be useful to understand the distinction between official (de jure) and common usage (de facto).

TomMarius 8y ago

200 CHF for a programming language specification? Is it 1995?