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The militarization of police is largely a U.S. problem among first world countries. As a practical matter I'm more concerned about things like investigations wi

The militarization of police is largely a U.S. problem among first world countries. As a practical matter I'm more concerned about things like investigations with poor judicial oversight, poorly justified police searches, warrantless or rubber stamped surveillance, frivolous information requests, general lack of respect for privacy rights, etc. France, for instance, unfortunately seems to have moved quite a bit in that direction after the terrorist attacks of recent years. I've not heard of a similar trend in Germany, but it's always nice to hear an informed perspective from people who actually live there.

_ak 8y ago
Militarization of police is happening in Germany, as well: * Police special forces (SEK which are organized on the state level unlike GSG9 which are state police) have switched from blue to military-like green/brown uniforms (which have no tactical value, but that's another discussion). * Police in e.g. Berlin are changing their fully automatic weapons by phasing out the 9mm MP-5 and replacing it with 5.56x45 G36 assault rifles for "anti-terror defense" purposes. * More and more police units are equipped with armored wheeled tanks. * Peaceful left-wing demonstrations in some states are regularly "secured" by special forces equipped with tactical equipment including assault rifles, a clear intimidation tactic. SEK units aren't even being trained to handle demos. * Crime statistics are recorded in bizarre ways to artificially inflate anti-police violence, which in turn forms the basis for police unions to demand stricter laws. For example, any attack on a single police man is counted as an attack against their whole unit, and suddenly one victim becomes 10 victims in the statistics.
- Tomte 8y ago
  1. The color of the uniform doesn't seem relevant to me. 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36. 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad. 4. That sounds just a little biased. 5. That sounds not true. Certainly you should post sources for that extraordinary claim.
  - vsl 8y ago
    > 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36. What the grandparent meant, I'd think, is the difference in the round. H&K MP5 uses 9mm Luger, pistol ammunition with significantly lower energy, range and penetration than 5.56x45mm NATO. One of those is suitable for police work too, one is only suitable for military or hunting. This matters in urban areas, in police work, in use by inexperienced shooters (pretty much any policeman except for specialized units by definition, unless they train in their spare time, which is… somewhat difficult in Germany). 5.56x45 absolutely is "military" and equipping 5.56x45 riffles to regular police units doing patrol duty in cities absolutely is "militarization". > 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad. The emphasis of that statement was on "more". While such hardware is sometimes needed, and so are "militarized" police units, the scope is limited. If (I don't know, nor the scale of it; but neither seem you) more of such equipment is used, "militarization" certainly would seem appropriate term for it.
- andor 8y ago
  German police used to have green/beige uniforms and just recently switched to blue. You might have seen an old uniform, rather than a new one. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiuniform_(Deutschland)#Moosgr.C3.BCn.2FBeige_Uniform https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiuniform_(Deutschland)#M...
lainga 8y ago
The militarization of U.S. police was mostly enabled by the large amount of surplus equipment they had after the invasion of Iraq wound down, which was sold to municipal police at discount. I am sure Germany's collective memory would cause even the CDU/CSU to balk at doing something similar, but in any rate they don't have such surplus equipment.

_ak 8y ago

Militarization of police is happening in Germany, as well: * Police special forces (SEK which are organized on the state level unlike GSG9 which are state police) have switched from blue to military-like green/brown uniforms (which have no tactical value, but that's another discussion). * Police in e.g. Berlin are changing their fully automatic weapons by phasing out the 9mm MP-5 and replacing it with 5.56x45 G36 assault rifles for "anti-terror defense" purposes. * More and more police units are equipped with armored wheeled tanks. * Peaceful left-wing demonstrations in some states are regularly "secured" by special forces equipped with tactical equipment including assault rifles, a clear intimidation tactic. SEK units aren't even being trained to handle demos. * Crime statistics are recorded in bizarre ways to artificially inflate anti-police violence, which in turn forms the basis for police unions to demand stricter laws. For example, any attack on a single police man is counted as an attack against their whole unit, and suddenly one victim becomes 10 victims in the statistics.

Tomte 8y ago
1. The color of the uniform doesn't seem relevant to me. 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36. 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad. 4. That sounds just a little biased. 5. That sounds not true. Certainly you should post sources for that extraordinary claim.
- vsl 8y ago
  > 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36. What the grandparent meant, I'd think, is the difference in the round. H&K MP5 uses 9mm Luger, pistol ammunition with significantly lower energy, range and penetration than 5.56x45mm NATO. One of those is suitable for police work too, one is only suitable for military or hunting. This matters in urban areas, in police work, in use by inexperienced shooters (pretty much any policeman except for specialized units by definition, unless they train in their spare time, which is… somewhat difficult in Germany). 5.56x45 absolutely is "military" and equipping 5.56x45 riffles to regular police units doing patrol duty in cities absolutely is "militarization". > 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad. The emphasis of that statement was on "more". While such hardware is sometimes needed, and so are "militarized" police units, the scope is limited. If (I don't know, nor the scale of it; but neither seem you) more of such equipment is used, "militarization" certainly would seem appropriate term for it.
andor 8y ago
German police used to have green/beige uniforms and just recently switched to blue. You might have seen an old uniform, rather than a new one. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiuniform_(Deutschland)#Moosgr.C3.BCn.2FBeige_Uniform https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polizeiuniform_(Deutschland)#M...

lainga 8y ago

The militarization of U.S. police was mostly enabled by the large amount of surplus equipment they had after the invasion of Iraq wound down, which was sold to municipal police at discount. I am sure Germany's collective memory would cause even the CDU/CSU to balk at doing something similar, but in any rate they don't have such surplus equipment.