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Your description is very accurate. But to me it's exactly why Europe is more racist or inegalitarian. > differentiate between natives, people with immigration

by 87 8y ago

Your description is very accurate. But to me it's exactly why Europe is more racist or inegalitarian. > differentiate between natives, people with immigration background and immigrants Yes, in a racist/othering manner. Sure, in the US you might hear about someone being an immigrant or being born to an immigrant family. But this is almost universally mentioned as a positive reflecting ones Americanness. With illegal immigrants being the only notable exception. In Europe it's often the other way around. This "it's not about race, it's about nationality/whatever" gambit is exactly how Europeans fool themselves into believing there isn't a problem. It's not about the word, it's about treating people badly for who they are.

m_mueller 8y ago
I agree very much with you, we should head towards a society where the origin of people, their skin tone, gender and sexuality doesn't matter at all, at least in public life, jobs and home search. I just want to add that US and Europe seem to be on different paths and I'm not entirely sure that one is ahead of the other. To me the problems in the US in that regard seem more systemic (e.g. low social mobility), while the ones in Europe seem more personal, comparatively, although with greater regional/national variability. Intuitively I think that PC culture is not helping - it's like paving over social problems instead of letting them go their natural course until a culture has finally absorbed an immigration wave. Heavy handed government- or corporate regulations often seem to have adverse effects. Although saying that, I do have a picture on how heavy regulation could work better - have more stuff selected blindly. And I do mean blind - no names, no voices, instead you get assigned a case ID (from government?) and you communicate through secure chat, until an offer is either accepted or rejected from any party. That could at least meet discrimination at the initial selection process - of course you still have adverse networking effects leading to lots of jobs not being offered public anymore and the subsequent workplace discrimination issues - these are harder nuts to crack. But the way e.g. job applications in the US are handled is an incomplete shield, it should be either all-in blind or just open to 'cultural fit' questions from start IMO.

by 87 8y ago

m_mueller 8y ago

I agree very much with you, we should head towards a society where the origin of people, their skin tone, gender and sexuality doesn't matter at all, at least in public life, jobs and home search. I just want to add that US and Europe seem to be on different paths and I'm not entirely sure that one is ahead of the other. To me the problems in the US in that regard seem more systemic (e.g. low social mobility), while the ones in Europe seem more personal, comparatively, although with greater regional/national variability. Intuitively I think that PC culture is not helping - it's like paving over social problems instead of letting them go their natural course until a culture has finally absorbed an immigration wave. Heavy handed government- or corporate regulations often seem to have adverse effects. Although saying that, I do have a picture on how heavy regulation could work better - have more stuff selected blindly. And I do mean blind - no names, no voices, instead you get assigned a case ID (from government?) and you communicate through secure chat, until an offer is either accepted or rejected from any party. That could at least meet discrimination at the initial selection process - of course you still have adverse networking effects leading to lots of jobs not being offered public anymore and the subsequent workplace discrimination issues - these are harder nuts to crack. But the way e.g. job applications in the US are handled is an incomplete shield, it should be either all-in blind or just open to 'cultural fit' questions from start IMO.