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FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. Sadly American business culture seems to be also drin

FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. Sadly American business culture seems to be also drinking these guanxi- and gravitas-obsessed kool aids, and less disapproving (from what I have seen) than East Asia. Others who are more connected and experienced would know more than I do.

stone-monkey 8y ago
Isn't this pretty common in East Asia though? I've heard similar stories about South Korea, and the salaryman culture there is supposed to be pretty bad.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
coldtea 8y ago
>FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. "Disapproval" in the same way that some groups were for tee-totalling in the US. Some small minority is against the practices, but they are extremely prevalent all across Asia (and China has little to do with it, besides being the new big customer in lots of those cases -- Japanese do the same kind of stuff, Koreans, etc.).
- wallace_f 8y ago
  I don't know, corruption and prostitution is pretty easy to find in SEA and China, even in SG, but it's not that way in East Asia in my experience. Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that."
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that." Isn't Hong Kong known for it's prostitution scene? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong#Hist... I think what those HKese wanted was to distinguish themselves from their more uncultivated mainlanders (like a yankee vs redneck thing, but with being an ex-British Colony thrown in). Otherwise, HK has long before uniting with China been known as a haven for prostitution, smuggling, drugs, and so on. The archetypical "seedy harbor town". I doubt very much has changed since... Then there's the westerners there, that could be even worse: "The first time I walked down the main drag in Wan Chai in Hong Kong, I couldn't believe what I saw; all the mama bars there and prostitutes openly in the street outside trying to get guys to go in. Within the first week I'd already been offered cocaine, though I didn't take it at that stage. When I did, it was easy to get. I know 100 guys between the ages of 20 and 50, and I'd say around 30 of them were regular cocaine users. Not all were working in banking, but most were, of the ones I knew. They were all Westerners." https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/03/world/asia/hong-kong-banker-drugs/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/03/world/asia/hong-kong-bank...
  - maehwasu 8y ago
    East Asians are self-aware enough not to flaunt their dealings to foreigners, since they know how up-tight foreigners are about such things. I've lived in Korea for many years, spent a lot of time in Japan, and do a lot of business in Hong Kong. Prostitution, particularly in room salon settings, is the primary setting for most intra-Asian business. Business drinking volumes are also off the charts, particularly in Korea.
    - wallace_f 8y ago
      I just know about the heavy drinking, which yea is how it is in SK and Japan. Perhaps I'm naive or not important enough to know about these things. In SEA the prostitution is in your face and even in SG they will stand streetsidr asking you to come in; but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. I'm likely biased in my experiences because I'm not into those types of things personally, would never use a prostitute.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        >but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. Sorry, but what do you mean with "East Asia"? China is East Asia, and this is very much a thing. So is Korea and Japan. "Since Japanese law defines prostitution as "intercourse with an unspecified person in exchange for payment," most fūzoku offer only non-coital services, such as conversation, dancing, or bathing, to remain legal.[2] Nevertheless, polls by MiW and the National Women's Education Center of Japan have found that between 20% and 40% of Japanese men have paid for sex." " Kabukicho, an entertainment and red-light district in Shinjuku, Tokyo, measures only 0.34 km2, and has approximately 3,500 sex parlors, strip theaters, peep shows, "soaplands", 'lovers' banks, porno shops, sex telephone clubs, karaoke bars and clubs, etc.[32] (...) It was reported in 2003 that as many as 150,000 non-Japanese women were then involved in prostitution in Japan."
        wallace_f 8y ago
        I just meant East Asia excepting China/NK If your stats are true that 20-40% of Japanese men have paid for sex than I am incredibly naive, however I dont believe the stats are that high

stone-monkey 8y ago

Isn't this pretty common in East Asia though? I've heard similar stories about South Korea, and the salaryman culture there is supposed to be pretty bad.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

coldtea 8y ago

>FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. "Disapproval" in the same way that some groups were for tee-totalling in the US. Some small minority is against the practices, but they are extremely prevalent all across Asia (and China has little to do with it, besides being the new big customer in lots of those cases -- Japanese do the same kind of stuff, Koreans, etc.).

wallace_f 8y ago
I don't know, corruption and prostitution is pretty easy to find in SEA and China, even in SG, but it's not that way in East Asia in my experience. Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that."
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that." Isn't Hong Kong known for it's prostitution scene? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong#Hist... I think what those HKese wanted was to distinguish themselves from their more uncultivated mainlanders (like a yankee vs redneck thing, but with being an ex-British Colony thrown in). Otherwise, HK has long before uniting with China been known as a haven for prostitution, smuggling, drugs, and so on. The archetypical "seedy harbor town". I doubt very much has changed since... Then there's the westerners there, that could be even worse: "The first time I walked down the main drag in Wan Chai in Hong Kong, I couldn't believe what I saw; all the mama bars there and prostitutes openly in the street outside trying to get guys to go in. Within the first week I'd already been offered cocaine, though I didn't take it at that stage. When I did, it was easy to get. I know 100 guys between the ages of 20 and 50, and I'd say around 30 of them were regular cocaine users. Not all were working in banking, but most were, of the ones I knew. They were all Westerners." https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/03/world/asia/hong-kong-banker-drugs/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/03/world/asia/hong-kong-bank...
- maehwasu 8y ago
  East Asians are self-aware enough not to flaunt their dealings to foreigners, since they know how up-tight foreigners are about such things. I've lived in Korea for many years, spent a lot of time in Japan, and do a lot of business in Hong Kong. Prostitution, particularly in room salon settings, is the primary setting for most intra-Asian business. Business drinking volumes are also off the charts, particularly in Korea.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    I just know about the heavy drinking, which yea is how it is in SK and Japan. Perhaps I'm naive or not important enough to know about these things. In SEA the prostitution is in your face and even in SG they will stand streetsidr asking you to come in; but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. I'm likely biased in my experiences because I'm not into those types of things personally, would never use a prostitute.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. Sorry, but what do you mean with "East Asia"? China is East Asia, and this is very much a thing. So is Korea and Japan. "Since Japanese law defines prostitution as "intercourse with an unspecified person in exchange for payment," most fūzoku offer only non-coital services, such as conversation, dancing, or bathing, to remain legal.[2] Nevertheless, polls by MiW and the National Women's Education Center of Japan have found that between 20% and 40% of Japanese men have paid for sex." " Kabukicho, an entertainment and red-light district in Shinjuku, Tokyo, measures only 0.34 km2, and has approximately 3,500 sex parlors, strip theaters, peep shows, "soaplands", 'lovers' banks, porno shops, sex telephone clubs, karaoke bars and clubs, etc.[32] (...) It was reported in 2003 that as many as 150,000 non-Japanese women were then involved in prostitution in Japan."
      - wallace_f 8y ago
        I just meant East Asia excepting China/NK If your stats are true that 20-40% of Japanese men have paid for sex than I am incredibly naive, however I dont believe the stats are that high