4 ms·

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the weste

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.

donquichotte 8y ago
Maybe it is you. From TFA: "“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“" Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.
- tomp 8y ago
  I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.
  - SolarNet 8y ago
    Like they have a choice? Did you see the part where it's basically impossible for women to succeed in business as any average man would because of this system?
    - tomp 8y ago
      what does that have to do with prostitutes having rough sex?
      - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        If you don't have a choice to be a prostitute, it has everything to do with it. Forced prostitution is bad enough, but being mishandled to the point of being hurt is worse.
        tomp 8y ago
        So, you're saying, it morally OK to have sex with someone who's forced to be a prostitute, as long as you're not hurting them?! I disagree. IMO consensual sex is fine (however BDSM it is), non-consensual sex is bad. Arguing the degree of badness, while sometimes useful, is (1) not relevant to the above discussion, and (2) a second-order effect, so vastly less important anyways.
        Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        No. what I'm sayin is that if it is consensual, whatever folks agree to is fine. It doesn't matter to me if someone wants to go through this stuff or agrees to it. There has to be choice. This includes a legal prostitute: The prostitute should have every right to refuse a sex act, whatever it may be. But when it isn't consensual, the harm done makes the situation that much worse.
    - matz1 8y ago
      Woman can use their sexuality to succeed.
      - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        Sure, but so can men. People don't assume men do, though - but the'll assume a woman that does well has put in time on her back.
        gbersac 8y ago
        Really ? Never heard about it.
        Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure I've seen it in movie or tv shows a few times. I've personally seen a man use his looks to get ahead - this was in a company that had many more women than men. And I'm going to guess that it happens with gay men as well.
  - watwut 8y ago
    They signed up for sex for money, not to get hurt. Workplace safety and all that.
  - sumedh 8y ago
    > I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for. What about the ones who were forced into it?
    - tomp 8y ago
      Those would suffer even if they were forced to have "normal" (i.e. non-rough) sex. (IMO legalisation is the best solution for that, but it's an orthogonal issue to the one parent was pointing out.)
sabertoothed 8y ago
It excludes / make it awkward for professional women or even gay professionals.
akudha 8y ago
Personally I don't care what others do. I care if I am put in a position that I have to engage in these activities, just to win a contract, get paid or whatever else. Especially if I wasn't warned in advance. I guess it would be better for everyone if the interviewee is asked "You might have to participate in, err, hard parties. Would you be okay with it?" The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men.
- icelancer 8y ago
  >> I guess it would be better for everyone if the interviewee is asked "You might have to participate in, err, hard parties. Would you be okay with it?" If you did business in Asia, you would quickly realize this attitude is ridiculous for any number of reasons, not the least being strip club visits. Asian business is all about maintaining and saving face. When in China once, our factory rep offered to us let pick where to go get food. We chose four places and got "hmm, no, don't think that would work well for you" until we chose a place and they agreed. When we got there, our names were placed and the restaurant was clearly waiting for our group. The entire thing was a sham and set up from the beginning to force us into a choice. But they wanted us to have the feeling of control, even if we immediately knew it was bullshit. They're not stupid. Directness like you talk about is simply not acceptable when it comes to any number of negotiating tactics. This is something you learn very quickly if you do logistics or sales in China, or you simply just don't get any work. >> The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men. Chinese businessmen don't care about this. Just because Americans do, or it's the right thing to do, doesn't make it something that's going to happen.
watwut 8y ago
For me it personally, stories like this make it impossible to buy the theory that the world or work are meritocracy or fair. It is not so much that it is politically incorrect, it is more that you can't simultaneously claim that this is how it is and is ok while also claim that everything is totally fair and demographic composition is not influenced by any of this. Not just gender, also religious as it selects people with certain values - good traditional Christian boy saving himself for marriage is f-cked too.
- crypt1d 8y ago
  Anyone claiming we live in a fair and just society is either asleep and in a fairy tale land, or is pushing an agenda. World is a dangerous place, full of things you may not like, not approve or are simply disgusting. We should certainly work towards improving ourselves but I dont think we can grow unless we learn to respect each other's differences, even when we dont like them. Certainly nobody is coercing anyone into going to strip clubs to close business deals and you can always walk away. Of course you will be walking away from a business opportunity but life is full of hard choices. We don't get to change the rules of the game just because we don't like the outcome.
  - watwut 8y ago
    Nobody is coercing you to go, but people will gladly claim that if you are poorer as a result then it is surely because you was lazy or less talented then those who went. And they will celebrate those who went and virtuous and if you dare to point out dark side, you are lazy and jealous. I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission. Certainly, people are entitled to try to change rules, because current rules are result of human activity - someone else setting rules in his favor in the past.
    - crypt1d 8y ago
      > Nobody is coercing you to go, but people will gladly claim that if you are poorer as a result then it is surely because you was lazy or less talented then those who went. And they will celebrate those who went and virtuous and if you dare to point out dark side, you are lazy and jealous. Again, you make your own choices. If it is more important what people 'claim' about you, instead of how you feel about urself then it seems to me like somebody needs to readjust his moral compass and drop the 'what they are doing is not fair and just'. The hard truth is that people are not really complaining about the morality of the game, but about the fact that they don't get to play it because they have to keep their politically correct appearances. > I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission. You are absolutely right, I expressed myself poorly. What I meant is that that's the game they are playing. You are welcome to try and change it, but don't go crying (and claiming the moral high ground) when you are kicked out and defeated anyway.
erikb 8y ago
Actually a lot of the comments confirm that in the west it's teh same. It's just happening behind closed doors and there are really people (e.g. engineers) who don't know about this at all.
kelukelugames 8y ago
lol, the Republicans coined that term. Pretty sure they wouldn't describe visiting prostitutes with your customers as not "politically correct."

donquichotte 8y ago

Maybe it is you. From TFA: "“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“" Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.

tomp 8y ago
I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.
- SolarNet 8y ago
  Like they have a choice? Did you see the part where it's basically impossible for women to succeed in business as any average man would because of this system?
  - tomp 8y ago
    what does that have to do with prostitutes having rough sex?
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      If you don't have a choice to be a prostitute, it has everything to do with it. Forced prostitution is bad enough, but being mishandled to the point of being hurt is worse.
      - tomp 8y ago
        So, you're saying, it morally OK to have sex with someone who's forced to be a prostitute, as long as you're not hurting them?! I disagree. IMO consensual sex is fine (however BDSM it is), non-consensual sex is bad. Arguing the degree of badness, while sometimes useful, is (1) not relevant to the above discussion, and (2) a second-order effect, so vastly less important anyways.
        Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        No. what I'm sayin is that if it is consensual, whatever folks agree to is fine. It doesn't matter to me if someone wants to go through this stuff or agrees to it. There has to be choice. This includes a legal prostitute: The prostitute should have every right to refuse a sex act, whatever it may be. But when it isn't consensual, the harm done makes the situation that much worse.
  - matz1 8y ago
    Woman can use their sexuality to succeed.
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      Sure, but so can men. People don't assume men do, though - but the'll assume a woman that does well has put in time on her back.
      - gbersac 8y ago
        Really ? Never heard about it.
        Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure I've seen it in movie or tv shows a few times. I've personally seen a man use his looks to get ahead - this was in a company that had many more women than men. And I'm going to guess that it happens with gay men as well.
- watwut 8y ago
  They signed up for sex for money, not to get hurt. Workplace safety and all that.
- sumedh 8y ago
  > I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for. What about the ones who were forced into it?
  - tomp 8y ago
    Those would suffer even if they were forced to have "normal" (i.e. non-rough) sex. (IMO legalisation is the best solution for that, but it's an orthogonal issue to the one parent was pointing out.)

sabertoothed 8y ago

It excludes / make it awkward for professional women or even gay professionals.

akudha 8y ago

Personally I don't care what others do. I care if I am put in a position that I have to engage in these activities, just to win a contract, get paid or whatever else. Especially if I wasn't warned in advance. I guess it would be better for everyone if the interviewee is asked "You might have to participate in, err, hard parties. Would you be okay with it?" The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men.

icelancer 8y ago
>> I guess it would be better for everyone if the interviewee is asked "You might have to participate in, err, hard parties. Would you be okay with it?" If you did business in Asia, you would quickly realize this attitude is ridiculous for any number of reasons, not the least being strip club visits. Asian business is all about maintaining and saving face. When in China once, our factory rep offered to us let pick where to go get food. We chose four places and got "hmm, no, don't think that would work well for you" until we chose a place and they agreed. When we got there, our names were placed and the restaurant was clearly waiting for our group. The entire thing was a sham and set up from the beginning to force us into a choice. But they wanted us to have the feeling of control, even if we immediately knew it was bullshit. They're not stupid. Directness like you talk about is simply not acceptable when it comes to any number of negotiating tactics. This is something you learn very quickly if you do logistics or sales in China, or you simply just don't get any work. >> The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men. Chinese businessmen don't care about this. Just because Americans do, or it's the right thing to do, doesn't make it something that's going to happen.

watwut 8y ago

For me it personally, stories like this make it impossible to buy the theory that the world or work are meritocracy or fair. It is not so much that it is politically incorrect, it is more that you can't simultaneously claim that this is how it is and is ok while also claim that everything is totally fair and demographic composition is not influenced by any of this. Not just gender, also religious as it selects people with certain values - good traditional Christian boy saving himself for marriage is f-cked too.

crypt1d 8y ago
Anyone claiming we live in a fair and just society is either asleep and in a fairy tale land, or is pushing an agenda. World is a dangerous place, full of things you may not like, not approve or are simply disgusting. We should certainly work towards improving ourselves but I dont think we can grow unless we learn to respect each other's differences, even when we dont like them. Certainly nobody is coercing anyone into going to strip clubs to close business deals and you can always walk away. Of course you will be walking away from a business opportunity but life is full of hard choices. We don't get to change the rules of the game just because we don't like the outcome.
- watwut 8y ago
  Nobody is coercing you to go, but people will gladly claim that if you are poorer as a result then it is surely because you was lazy or less talented then those who went. And they will celebrate those who went and virtuous and if you dare to point out dark side, you are lazy and jealous. I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission. Certainly, people are entitled to try to change rules, because current rules are result of human activity - someone else setting rules in his favor in the past.
  - crypt1d 8y ago
    > Nobody is coercing you to go, but people will gladly claim that if you are poorer as a result then it is surely because you was lazy or less talented then those who went. And they will celebrate those who went and virtuous and if you dare to point out dark side, you are lazy and jealous. Again, you make your own choices. If it is more important what people 'claim' about you, instead of how you feel about urself then it seems to me like somebody needs to readjust his moral compass and drop the 'what they are doing is not fair and just'. The hard truth is that people are not really complaining about the morality of the game, but about the fact that they don't get to play it because they have to keep their politically correct appearances. > I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission. You are absolutely right, I expressed myself poorly. What I meant is that that's the game they are playing. You are welcome to try and change it, but don't go crying (and claiming the moral high ground) when you are kicked out and defeated anyway.

erikb 8y ago

Actually a lot of the comments confirm that in the west it's teh same. It's just happening behind closed doors and there are really people (e.g. engineers) who don't know about this at all.

kelukelugames 8y ago

lol, the Republicans coined that term. Pretty sure they wouldn't describe visiting prostitutes with your customers as not "politically correct."