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If that was the case we would live in a very different world. Discipline is necessary for children, they cant reason, why something is supposed to be in a certa

If that was the case we would live in a very different world. Discipline is necessary for children, they cant reason, why something is supposed to be in a certain way, so speaking to them like they do at an age of 5, is the real danger here. As they grow older and understand more complex concepts you can start to educate them on the nuances and reasons but in my experience, they will automatically start asking you at the right age and you should be able to just use that as your trajectory IMO.

specialist 8y ago
Any of us could talk about parenting strategies ad nauseum. I have no greater wisdom. I'll just share two bits of advice I found helpful. And one belief. Most young humans don't misbehave. It's their job to explore the world, test boundaries, learn. It's the parent's job to preserve the boundaries. Reassure the child the world is safe and predictable. Stuff like bed time rituals are super important to keeping everyone sane. Ages 0-8, imprint your child with your values. Ages 9-12, have fun together. Ages 13-25, keep them alive. Cognition is social. We resonate off each other. Model the behavior you expect, your kids will pick it up.
- ghotli 8y ago
  hey you know what, this really resonates with me.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  yup 7.30PM in our house and we eat together most of the time make our own food (from scratch and involve the kids in making sure they help out) and we give them more and more responsibility plus allow them to get hurt (free range). This sounds normal to a lot of people but in New York it's not that normal. How they will turn out we will see :)
  - specialist 8y ago
    Ya, that's one thing I did get right. My son always helped me in the kitchen. At first, it was just help by "washing" the vegetables. What kid doesn't like to play in the water? He'd eat anything he helped prepare, even if he didn't like it much (eg mushrooms). Because he had a relationship with his food. Now he's quite the foodie. Makes serviceable Phad Thai, curries, etc. Another house rule was "One 'No thank you' bite". I didn't make any of the kids choke down foods, like my parents did to us. But they had to try everything at least once. They were often happily surprised.
    - ThomPete 8y ago
      Yup, that's the rule here to. Also, my boys get to decide what to eat once a month and help to do it. Ther is just one rule. They can't choose the same which means we got the burgers, lasagne, pasta with butter and parmesan and curry chicken out of the way fast :)
InclinedPlane 8y ago
Are you a childhood development or cognitive behavioral specialist? Can you point me to your CV or simply list a couple of the papers you've published?
- jexah 8y ago
  You might have better luck if you attack the substance rather than the authority.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
Your comment is non responsive. Telling your child they are bad people is not discipline.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  ? How am I telling them they are bad people? Not sure what you are talking about.
jacobolus 8y ago
I’m not really sure what you mean by “discipline”. Anecdotally, as the parent of a not-quite-2-year-old, I have found that when I treat 2- to 4-year-old kids at the playground with basic human respect, and pay attention to their interests and feelings, they end up following me all around subsequently (and e.g. running over to me when they see me the next week, wanting to show me their toys and tricks, ...), as if they were craving non-controlling non-judgmental human interaction they otherwise were not receiving from other people they interact with on a regular basis. Watching other parents and caretakers, there are a substantial proportion who constantly deny kids’ feelings, tell them what they are supposed to feel and think, baby them by doing things for them that they could do for themselves, prevent them from doing not-very-risky things ostensibly for safety reasons, pointlessly force them to do irrelevant things they don’t want to do, etc. YMMV.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  Thank you for asking. I don't mean "discipline" in a physical way of course. I simply mean that I am not going to explain to them why they are not allowed to do certain things or why I want them to do certain things when they are too young because they don't' understand why. I was responding to the idea that you need to explain to kids why or we would get mischievous kids. With regards to the feelings. It's not as simple as you seem to portray. Kids will use that to get things their way there are plenty examples of parents who accept all their kid's emotions at face value and end up running around being controlled by their kids. So a balance is needed. And yes I agree that they should do as many things themselves which also for our kids means getting a lot of bruises for falling down from things (within reason obviously) It's all about balance. Don't deny your kid their emotions when they are real but "call them on their bluff" when they are not. That's my approach at least.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    > I simply mean that I am not going to explain to them why they are not allowed to do certain things or why I want them to do certain things when they are too young because they don't understand why. You might be surprised. Even when kids don’t fully understand the explanation, they can understand tone of voice, and might still appreciate that the adult has reasons for acting and is trying to explain instead of making decisions capriciously. The act of explaining also forces the adult to think about the reasons for their decisions, which gives a chance for reconsideration when the decision was in fact arbitrary. Finally, explaining things gets both parties in the habit of talking about their feelings and decisions instead of expecting everyone around to guess them and then getting mad when they are not understood. (For a simple example, if we just read the same book 3 times in a row, and I want to read something else, I can either (a) explain that I am bored with the book and need some variety to keep my sanity, and let the kid pick the next book, or (b) realize that I don’t actually care which book we are reading, and just dive in for time #4; either of those is better than just “we aren’t reading that book again, we are reading this one” which is just a unilateral decision.) > With regards to the feelings. It's not as simple as you seem to portray. Kids will use that to get things their way there are plenty examples of parents who accept all their kid's emotions at face value and end up running around being controlled by their kids. For instance, when someone falls down and is fussing, either “oh get up, you are fine, that didn’t hurt” or “oh my gosh! you must be really hurt! let me smother you in kisses and make it better!” are telling the kid what to feel/think, and if the response doesn’t actually match the severity of the fall, then this is quite confusing for the kid. A better response is “are you alright?”; then the kid can decide if they are actually just surprised, or if they are in pain and want comforting, or if they are seriously injured and need more significant help. Again, anecdotally, I have observed that the parents who get run over by their kids tend to be the same ones who are consistently ignoring or denying the kids’ feelings (or sometimes largely ignoring the kids’ existence unless they are misbehaving). Demanding things and throwing tantrums is one of the few ways the kids find to get the attention they crave. Accepting someone’s feelings doesn’t mean giving them whatever they want. It just means listening to what they are actually saying, and then responding to that in an empathetic way (a good start is to just echo back what they are saying or what you think they might be feeling). To any parents out there: I recommend the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk.

specialist 8y ago

Any of us could talk about parenting strategies ad nauseum. I have no greater wisdom. I'll just share two bits of advice I found helpful. And one belief. Most young humans don't misbehave. It's their job to explore the world, test boundaries, learn. It's the parent's job to preserve the boundaries. Reassure the child the world is safe and predictable. Stuff like bed time rituals are super important to keeping everyone sane. Ages 0-8, imprint your child with your values. Ages 9-12, have fun together. Ages 13-25, keep them alive. Cognition is social. We resonate off each other. Model the behavior you expect, your kids will pick it up.

ghotli 8y ago
hey you know what, this really resonates with me.
ThomPete 8y ago
yup 7.30PM in our house and we eat together most of the time make our own food (from scratch and involve the kids in making sure they help out) and we give them more and more responsibility plus allow them to get hurt (free range). This sounds normal to a lot of people but in New York it's not that normal. How they will turn out we will see :)
- specialist 8y ago
  Ya, that's one thing I did get right. My son always helped me in the kitchen. At first, it was just help by "washing" the vegetables. What kid doesn't like to play in the water? He'd eat anything he helped prepare, even if he didn't like it much (eg mushrooms). Because he had a relationship with his food. Now he's quite the foodie. Makes serviceable Phad Thai, curries, etc. Another house rule was "One 'No thank you' bite". I didn't make any of the kids choke down foods, like my parents did to us. But they had to try everything at least once. They were often happily surprised.
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    Yup, that's the rule here to. Also, my boys get to decide what to eat once a month and help to do it. Ther is just one rule. They can't choose the same which means we got the burgers, lasagne, pasta with butter and parmesan and curry chicken out of the way fast :)

InclinedPlane 8y ago

Are you a childhood development or cognitive behavioral specialist? Can you point me to your CV or simply list a couple of the papers you've published?

jexah 8y ago
You might have better luck if you attack the substance rather than the authority.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Your comment is non responsive. Telling your child they are bad people is not discipline.

ThomPete 8y ago
? How am I telling them they are bad people? Not sure what you are talking about.

jacobolus 8y ago

I’m not really sure what you mean by “discipline”. Anecdotally, as the parent of a not-quite-2-year-old, I have found that when I treat 2- to 4-year-old kids at the playground with basic human respect, and pay attention to their interests and feelings, they end up following me all around subsequently (and e.g. running over to me when they see me the next week, wanting to show me their toys and tricks, ...), as if they were craving non-controlling non-judgmental human interaction they otherwise were not receiving from other people they interact with on a regular basis. Watching other parents and caretakers, there are a substantial proportion who constantly deny kids’ feelings, tell them what they are supposed to feel and think, baby them by doing things for them that they could do for themselves, prevent them from doing not-very-risky things ostensibly for safety reasons, pointlessly force them to do irrelevant things they don’t want to do, etc. YMMV.

ThomPete 8y ago
Thank you for asking. I don't mean "discipline" in a physical way of course. I simply mean that I am not going to explain to them why they are not allowed to do certain things or why I want them to do certain things when they are too young because they don't' understand why. I was responding to the idea that you need to explain to kids why or we would get mischievous kids. With regards to the feelings. It's not as simple as you seem to portray. Kids will use that to get things their way there are plenty examples of parents who accept all their kid's emotions at face value and end up running around being controlled by their kids. So a balance is needed. And yes I agree that they should do as many things themselves which also for our kids means getting a lot of bruises for falling down from things (within reason obviously) It's all about balance. Don't deny your kid their emotions when they are real but "call them on their bluff" when they are not. That's my approach at least.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  > I simply mean that I am not going to explain to them why they are not allowed to do certain things or why I want them to do certain things when they are too young because they don't understand why. You might be surprised. Even when kids don’t fully understand the explanation, they can understand tone of voice, and might still appreciate that the adult has reasons for acting and is trying to explain instead of making decisions capriciously. The act of explaining also forces the adult to think about the reasons for their decisions, which gives a chance for reconsideration when the decision was in fact arbitrary. Finally, explaining things gets both parties in the habit of talking about their feelings and decisions instead of expecting everyone around to guess them and then getting mad when they are not understood. (For a simple example, if we just read the same book 3 times in a row, and I want to read something else, I can either (a) explain that I am bored with the book and need some variety to keep my sanity, and let the kid pick the next book, or (b) realize that I don’t actually care which book we are reading, and just dive in for time #4; either of those is better than just “we aren’t reading that book again, we are reading this one” which is just a unilateral decision.) > With regards to the feelings. It's not as simple as you seem to portray. Kids will use that to get things their way there are plenty examples of parents who accept all their kid's emotions at face value and end up running around being controlled by their kids. For instance, when someone falls down and is fussing, either “oh get up, you are fine, that didn’t hurt” or “oh my gosh! you must be really hurt! let me smother you in kisses and make it better!” are telling the kid what to feel/think, and if the response doesn’t actually match the severity of the fall, then this is quite confusing for the kid. A better response is “are you alright?”; then the kid can decide if they are actually just surprised, or if they are in pain and want comforting, or if they are seriously injured and need more significant help. Again, anecdotally, I have observed that the parents who get run over by their kids tend to be the same ones who are consistently ignoring or denying the kids’ feelings (or sometimes largely ignoring the kids’ existence unless they are misbehaving). Demanding things and throwing tantrums is one of the few ways the kids find to get the attention they crave. Accepting someone’s feelings doesn’t mean giving them whatever they want. It just means listening to what they are actually saying, and then responding to that in an empathetic way (a good start is to just echo back what they are saying or what you think they might be feeling). To any parents out there: I recommend the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk.