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For beginners? Whatever’s most popular on the job market. Ideally something with C syntax. Most languages are similar enough and their quirks can be avoided. Li

by _diyu 8y ago

For beginners? Whatever’s most popular on the job market. Ideally something with C syntax. Most languages are similar enough and their quirks can be avoided. Lisps are definitely a bad idea for this since the syntax is less intuitive to most people. ML languages like Haskell are not for everyone either, they require mathematically inclined minds. So maybe Java or JavaScript?

kalesho 8y ago
Do you really believe JS is less wart-y than Python?
- KirinDave 8y ago
  Do you really believe Python is less warty than JavaScript? A lot of the same numeric tower decision exist. There's a big schism between List Comprehensions and not, there's no simple way to ship closures around, and Python's concurrent I/O story is a sizzling hot mess. JavaScript has plenty of problems. So does Python. So why does Python maintain everyone else is stupid for embracing programming constructs that have been deployed successfully since the 60's?
cup-of-tea 8y ago
When I read your first post I thought you were going to suggest something sensible like using a language geared toward paedagogy instead of whatever language du jour, but what you've written here is absurd. C does not have intuitive syntax. Many places already do teach Java as a first language and it's a disastter for many reasons. Lisp has very intuitive syntax. The only people who don't find it intuitive are those who have struggled with C-like syntax for long enough they can't see anything else. The only reason Python is used is because it's popular so it seems to fit your criteria outlined in this comment just fine.
ehsankia 8y ago
Depending on the market, python is one of the most popular languages. JS is probably on top also alongside C but neither of those are better starters.
shevegen 8y ago
> Ideally something with C syntax. That is total rubbish. Python's syntax is, even with this wrong PEP, much cleaner than C-inspired syntax. That is probably one reason why you are not a language designer - you don't understand why good syntax matters. > ML languages like Haskell are not for everyone either I am glad you understand it. Haskell has a clean syntax, surprisingly, but it is a VERY, very difficult language. Just try to explain what a Monad is in a single sentence. Clean syntax is very important but it does not help when the language itself is very complex - and complicated.

by _diyu 8y ago

kalesho 8y ago

Do you really believe JS is less wart-y than Python?

KirinDave 8y ago
Do you really believe Python is less warty than JavaScript? A lot of the same numeric tower decision exist. There's a big schism between List Comprehensions and not, there's no simple way to ship closures around, and Python's concurrent I/O story is a sizzling hot mess. JavaScript has plenty of problems. So does Python. So why does Python maintain everyone else is stupid for embracing programming constructs that have been deployed successfully since the 60's?

cup-of-tea 8y ago

When I read your first post I thought you were going to suggest something sensible like using a language geared toward paedagogy instead of whatever language du jour, but what you've written here is absurd. C does not have intuitive syntax. Many places already do teach Java as a first language and it's a disastter for many reasons. Lisp has very intuitive syntax. The only people who don't find it intuitive are those who have struggled with C-like syntax for long enough they can't see anything else. The only reason Python is used is because it's popular so it seems to fit your criteria outlined in this comment just fine.

ehsankia 8y ago

Depending on the market, python is one of the most popular languages. JS is probably on top also alongside C but neither of those are better starters.

shevegen 8y ago

> Ideally something with C syntax. That is total rubbish. Python's syntax is, even with this wrong PEP, much cleaner than C-inspired syntax. That is probably one reason why you are not a language designer - you don't understand why good syntax matters. > ML languages like Haskell are not for everyone either I am glad you understand it. Haskell has a clean syntax, surprisingly, but it is a VERY, very difficult language. Just try to explain what a Monad is in a single sentence. Clean syntax is very important but it does not help when the language itself is very complex - and complicated.