6 ms·

Not true. There is no way citizens are voting to have their taxes spent on this.

coldtea 8y ago
You'd be very, very, very surprised. Not sure about the US, but in countries in Europe and Latin America that I know of, that's very much the case -- sports fans (soccer in this case of course) are a very vocal group, and have much influence on politics, and always push for more government spending on stadiums.
- extralego 8y ago
  OK, count me very, very, very surprised. If it happens there, I’m sure it happens all over the US.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  What are you talking about? In Europe, clubs have to pay for their own stadium. Arsenal paid for their stadium when they moved from Highbury to Emirates. Tottenham is paying for renovation of White Heart Lane. Real Madrid will be paying out of their own pocket for renovation to Bernabeu. Fc Barcelona will be paying out of their own pocket to renovate Camp Nou. I'm not aware the barbaric culture of billionaires using tax payers money to build a stadium and then keeping the profits from it anywhere outside US.
  - dizzy3gg 8y ago
    West Ham have had favours and Real Madrid have had a stupid amount of help from Madrid since forever.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I'm not aware the barbaric culture of billionaires using tax payers money to build a stadium and then keeping the profits from it anywhere outside US. You'd be surprised. "Taxpayers have criticised a "ridiculous" deal which means West Ham United will pay just a fraction of the £2.3m annual business rates bill on its London Stadium home.Owners E20 Stadium revealed the Hammers will only pay additional rates on the retail and office space in the 66,000-capacity ground after they secured the lease for just £2.5m a year in rent last year. Costs for the rest of the arena will have to be covered by E20, a joint venture between publicly funded London Legacy Development Corporation and Newham Council." "English club Manchester City received more than $170 million in public funds for its Etihad Stadium, where it moved in 2002, because the grounds were built to host the Commonwealth Games. Tottenham Hotspur, another English club, will reportedly receive some sort of public aid, whether through tax breaks or other forms of relief, to build a new version of its White Hart Lane. West Ham is moving into London’s Olympic stadium, also built with public funds, though the club will pay a small amount of the conversion costs and will also pay annual rent (in two of these instances, you’ll notice, the stadiums were built for other events and are being utilized by clubs, which isn’t altogether a bad thing). And in Spain, Barça, Real Madrid, the world’s second most valuable franchise, and other clubs are under a European Union investigation for receiving improper tax breaks." "When Juventus inaugurated the Juventus Arena in 2011 instead of the old Delle Alpi it became the first club in Italy to have stadium ownership while other clubs in Italy still rent a stadium from the local council. The main reason is for municipally owned stadiums is regulation and financial power of Italian clubs but this is starting to change now". Even when you read about "renting" it, the deals are more than generous (nowhere near the costs), and accompanied with huge tax breaks and easy state or municipally-supported loans in tons of cases. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-the-billions-brazil-spent-on-world-cup-stadiums-worth-it/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-the-billions-brazi... (And let's not even discuss e.g. Greece and other soccer-obsessed countries)
- Lukas_Skywalker 8y ago
  The stadium "Stade de Suisse" in Bern, Switzerland has an interesting approach. The stadium is not owned by the local club but by a joint venture of the club and various shops that are located in the stadium. The entire stadium was financed by those shops, gyms and whatnot. As is maintenance. Also, the shops are accessible from the outside even when no game is being played.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Sounds like a good idea for something like a Mall, but not sure how it works in practice for a stadium. The cost of opening a shop, gyp etc and equipping it at a regular location is already too large, without having to co-sponsor part of a stadium (which has huge costs to build and maintain) while at it. I suspect big subsidies or tax cuts or something involved too.
briffle 8y ago
In Milwaukee, they voted to raise the local sales tax to help pay for the Brewers stadium.
- extralego 8y ago
  Wow. Was it clear to them what they were voting for? How does that happen?
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing? Renovations to Lambeau Field in Green Bay were paid for by a voter-approved sales tax in Brown County. Wisconsin also loves to use property taxes for various things, which is how it gets away with being slightly lower-taxed than neighboring MN while having a similar quality of life.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      GBP are a nonprofit community-owned team: The Packers are owned by the fans, making them the only publicly owned, not-for-profit, major professional team in the United States. The Pack have been a fan-owned operation since the primitive pro football days of the nineteen-twenties, when N.F.L. teams could be won in card games and no one foresaw the awesome power this sport would hold over both the American imagination and the American wallet.... The Packers’ unique setup has created a relationship between team and community unlike any in the N.F.L. Wisconsin fans get to enjoy the team with the confidence that their owner won’t threaten to move to Los Angeles unless the team gets a new mega-dome. https://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/those-non-profit-packers https://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/those-non-prof...

You'd be very, very, very surprised. Not sure about the US, but in countries in Europe and Latin America that I know of, that's very much the case -- sports fans (soccer in this case of course) are a very vocal group, and have much influence on politics, and always push for more government spending on stadiums.

extralego 8y ago
OK, count me very, very, very surprised. If it happens there, I’m sure it happens all over the US.
parthdesai 8y ago
What are you talking about? In Europe, clubs have to pay for their own stadium. Arsenal paid for their stadium when they moved from Highbury to Emirates. Tottenham is paying for renovation of White Heart Lane. Real Madrid will be paying out of their own pocket for renovation to Bernabeu. Fc Barcelona will be paying out of their own pocket to renovate Camp Nou. I'm not aware the barbaric culture of billionaires using tax payers money to build a stadium and then keeping the profits from it anywhere outside US.
- dizzy3gg 8y ago
  West Ham have had favours and Real Madrid have had a stupid amount of help from Madrid since forever.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I'm not aware the barbaric culture of billionaires using tax payers money to build a stadium and then keeping the profits from it anywhere outside US. You'd be surprised. "Taxpayers have criticised a "ridiculous" deal which means West Ham United will pay just a fraction of the £2.3m annual business rates bill on its London Stadium home.Owners E20 Stadium revealed the Hammers will only pay additional rates on the retail and office space in the 66,000-capacity ground after they secured the lease for just £2.5m a year in rent last year. Costs for the rest of the arena will have to be covered by E20, a joint venture between publicly funded London Legacy Development Corporation and Newham Council." "English club Manchester City received more than $170 million in public funds for its Etihad Stadium, where it moved in 2002, because the grounds were built to host the Commonwealth Games. Tottenham Hotspur, another English club, will reportedly receive some sort of public aid, whether through tax breaks or other forms of relief, to build a new version of its White Hart Lane. West Ham is moving into London’s Olympic stadium, also built with public funds, though the club will pay a small amount of the conversion costs and will also pay annual rent (in two of these instances, you’ll notice, the stadiums were built for other events and are being utilized by clubs, which isn’t altogether a bad thing). And in Spain, Barça, Real Madrid, the world’s second most valuable franchise, and other clubs are under a European Union investigation for receiving improper tax breaks." "When Juventus inaugurated the Juventus Arena in 2011 instead of the old Delle Alpi it became the first club in Italy to have stadium ownership while other clubs in Italy still rent a stadium from the local council. The main reason is for municipally owned stadiums is regulation and financial power of Italian clubs but this is starting to change now". Even when you read about "renting" it, the deals are more than generous (nowhere near the costs), and accompanied with huge tax breaks and easy state or municipally-supported loans in tons of cases. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-the-billions-brazil-spent-on-world-cup-stadiums-worth-it/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-the-billions-brazi... (And let's not even discuss e.g. Greece and other soccer-obsessed countries)
Lukas_Skywalker 8y ago
The stadium "Stade de Suisse" in Bern, Switzerland has an interesting approach. The stadium is not owned by the local club but by a joint venture of the club and various shops that are located in the stadium. The entire stadium was financed by those shops, gyms and whatnot. As is maintenance. Also, the shops are accessible from the outside even when no game is being played.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Sounds like a good idea for something like a Mall, but not sure how it works in practice for a stadium. The cost of opening a shop, gyp etc and equipping it at a regular location is already too large, without having to co-sponsor part of a stadium (which has huge costs to build and maintain) while at it. I suspect big subsidies or tax cuts or something involved too.

briffle 8y ago

In Milwaukee, they voted to raise the local sales tax to help pay for the Brewers stadium.

extralego 8y ago
Wow. Was it clear to them what they were voting for? How does that happen?
- zdragnar 8y ago
  Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing? Renovations to Lambeau Field in Green Bay were paid for by a voter-approved sales tax in Brown County. Wisconsin also loves to use property taxes for various things, which is how it gets away with being slightly lower-taxed than neighboring MN while having a similar quality of life.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    GBP are a nonprofit community-owned team: The Packers are owned by the fans, making them the only publicly owned, not-for-profit, major professional team in the United States. The Pack have been a fan-owned operation since the primitive pro football days of the nineteen-twenties, when N.F.L. teams could be won in card games and no one foresaw the awesome power this sport would hold over both the American imagination and the American wallet.... The Packers’ unique setup has created a relationship between team and community unlike any in the N.F.L. Wisconsin fans get to enjoy the team with the confidence that their owner won’t threaten to move to Los Angeles unless the team gets a new mega-dome. https://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/those-non-profit-packers https://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/those-non-prof...