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> Not at the cost that it currently takes. Personally, I ascribe... Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they u

> Not at the cost that it currently takes. Personally, I ascribe... Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they using it? > far, far, far less value (if any) Can you put a number on that, and justify it?

s73v3r_ 8y ago
"Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they using it?" You're assuming rationality. You're also assuming they're actually paying for the electricity. And you're forgetting that they're not paying for the negative externalities of their energy waste. "Can you put a number on that, and justify it?" Take the smallest number you can think of. Now, take a number smaller than that.
- throwaway37585 8y ago
  > You're assuming rationality. Then explain why the people using bitcoin are being irrational. Are the miners processing transactions and receiving fees in return being irrational? Are the people using bitcoin to send and receive funds being irrational? Please enlighten us (and them, apparently). > You're also assuming they're actually paying for the electricity. They are. > And you're forgetting that they're not paying for the negative externalities of their energy waste. Classic case of moving the goalposts. The same applies to any economic activity requiring the use of electricity. > Take the smallest number you can think of. Now, take a number smaller than that. Dodging the question, I see.
lmm 8y ago
> Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they using it? It creates value for individuals at a bigger cost to society - a classic negative externality. Making drug dealing easier is immensely profitable and that's where all blockchain profits eventually come from - everything else is a smokescreen of intermediaries to create just enough deniability to let respectable business participate in the drug trade. It's just like outsourcing manufacturing to countries with lower environmental standards to profit from pollution (another example of something that's negative-value overall, but positive-value for the individual engaging in it).
- throwaway37585 8y ago
  > It creates value for individuals at a bigger cost to society - a classic negative externality. In what way? > Making drug dealing easier is immensely profitable and that's where all blockchain profits eventually come from Do you have a source for this, or is this just what you believe?
  - lmm 8y ago
    > In what way? Suppressing the drug trade is evidently something that society puts a high value on, given how much society spends on it. > Do you have a source for this, or is this just what you believe? Just looking at the whole blockchain ecosystem as a black box: any profit has to eventually come from outside, the rest is just moving that around. Speculators can move value around but aren't creating it. So who are the people getting something actually valuable in the real world from blockchain? I mean sure there's a bit of money laundering and evading capital controls, but the big one is drug dealing.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

"Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they using it?" You're assuming rationality. You're also assuming they're actually paying for the electricity. And you're forgetting that they're not paying for the negative externalities of their energy waste. "Can you put a number on that, and justify it?" Take the smallest number you can think of. Now, take a number smaller than that.

throwaway37585 8y ago
> You're assuming rationality. Then explain why the people using bitcoin are being irrational. Are the miners processing transactions and receiving fees in return being irrational? Are the people using bitcoin to send and receive funds being irrational? Please enlighten us (and them, apparently). > You're also assuming they're actually paying for the electricity. They are. > And you're forgetting that they're not paying for the negative externalities of their energy waste. Classic case of moving the goalposts. The same applies to any economic activity requiring the use of electricity. > Take the smallest number you can think of. Now, take a number smaller than that. Dodging the question, I see.

lmm 8y ago

> Based on what? And if people aren't getting value from using the blockchain, why are they using it? It creates value for individuals at a bigger cost to society - a classic negative externality. Making drug dealing easier is immensely profitable and that's where all blockchain profits eventually come from - everything else is a smokescreen of intermediaries to create just enough deniability to let respectable business participate in the drug trade. It's just like outsourcing manufacturing to countries with lower environmental standards to profit from pollution (another example of something that's negative-value overall, but positive-value for the individual engaging in it).

throwaway37585 8y ago
> It creates value for individuals at a bigger cost to society - a classic negative externality. In what way? > Making drug dealing easier is immensely profitable and that's where all blockchain profits eventually come from Do you have a source for this, or is this just what you believe?
- lmm 8y ago
  > In what way? Suppressing the drug trade is evidently something that society puts a high value on, given how much society spends on it. > Do you have a source for this, or is this just what you believe? Just looking at the whole blockchain ecosystem as a black box: any profit has to eventually come from outside, the rest is just moving that around. Speculators can move value around but aren't creating it. So who are the people getting something actually valuable in the real world from blockchain? I mean sure there's a bit of money laundering and evading capital controls, but the big one is drug dealing.