4 ms·

I've only read the books, not seen the TV version, but the Expanse universe relies on the "Epstein Drive" as a magical plot device to ignore any inconveniences

I've only read the books, not seen the TV version, but the Expanse universe relies on the "Epstein Drive" as a magical plot device to ignore any inconveniences of intra-system travel. This alone makes it pure science-fantasy that is unlikely to happen on any timescale and unsuitable as a guide to what our future holds.

rbanffy 8y ago
The Epstein drive is great for generating gravity directly from acceleration, but electric propulsion that's much less efficient than fiction would be just fine. If you can go to Mars in weeks and to Saturn in months using electric propulsion and a relatively small nuclear power plant on your rotating ship and do multiple trips without the need to stop by a large chunk of ice and hydrocarbons to make more propellant, then the kind of multi-planetary society depicted in The Expanse becomes viable. What it's not is self-starting. Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? I can imagine a community starting around scientific research, first government-sponsored, then, maybe, if costs can be driven down enough (thinking SpaceX and lots of hardware reused from previous missions - maybe a couple cyclers that can be replenished/refurbished while in transit) universities in partnership with governments and then, eventually, we'd have critical mass for partners and others unrelated to scientific research to bootstrap a functional society. If manufacturing of equipment can be automated in part and done on the Moon, then using the Moon as a stepping stone to more research on Mars is viable too. In that scenario, I'd consider paying my own ticket. But, still, we need to bootstrap it with a government sponsored research station that can grow into a self-sustaining colony.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? You'd have to be crazy to want to do that. Fortunately, Sol system is inhabited by humans.
- outworlder 8y ago
  > Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? Jobs. Aluminium-based refueling stations? Research? Cheap real state? I don't know, get cheap flights there, and people will find something useful to do.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    How about Heinlein's take? It starts out as a godforsaken penal colony, but then turns into a libertarian paradise for the self reliant. Here's the most compelling reason for starting settlement off planet: Polities that exist in a larger context will come to dominate human culture. A solar system wide culture based on relatively primitive, inefficient O'Neill colony habitats could still support a human population in the trillions with only known resources, solar power, and only small extrapolations from current technology.
    - rbanffy 8y ago
      It's cheaper to reverse-engineer the brain and rewire it into a fully adapted citizen than to send a person to the Moon with supplies for a week.
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    > Aluminium-based refueling stations? To refuel what? > Cheap real state? Location, location, location. Shipping people and goods is expensive. Latencies for data are terrible.
outworlder 8y ago
> I've only read the books, not seen the TV version, but the Expanse universe relies on the "Epstein Drive" as a magical plot device to ignore any inconveniences of intra-system travel. That's because they are operating on a much grander scale and there are plot constraints(it would be too slow and boring otherwise). It doesn't take an Epstein drive to move stuff (or people) to and from Mars. Transit time will be very inconvenient, as wekk as launch windows. But this is not too different from early sea-based exploration on Earth, voyages would take months at a time. Now, if you want to go to Saturn and back in reasonable timeframes (or even further), then yes, that's beyond current capability. EDIT: The TV version is amazing. You should watch it. The attention to detail, while not perfect, is outstanding.

rbanffy 8y ago

The Epstein drive is great for generating gravity directly from acceleration, but electric propulsion that's much less efficient than fiction would be just fine. If you can go to Mars in weeks and to Saturn in months using electric propulsion and a relatively small nuclear power plant on your rotating ship and do multiple trips without the need to stop by a large chunk of ice and hydrocarbons to make more propellant, then the kind of multi-planetary society depicted in The Expanse becomes viable. What it's not is self-starting. Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? I can imagine a community starting around scientific research, first government-sponsored, then, maybe, if costs can be driven down enough (thinking SpaceX and lots of hardware reused from previous missions - maybe a couple cyclers that can be replenished/refurbished while in transit) universities in partnership with governments and then, eventually, we'd have critical mass for partners and others unrelated to scientific research to bootstrap a functional society. If manufacturing of equipment can be automated in part and done on the Moon, then using the Moon as a stepping stone to more research on Mars is viable too. In that scenario, I'd consider paying my own ticket. But, still, we need to bootstrap it with a government sponsored research station that can grow into a self-sustaining colony.

stcredzero 8y ago
Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? You'd have to be crazy to want to do that. Fortunately, Sol system is inhabited by humans.
outworlder 8y ago
> Why would someone want to move permanently to the Moon? Jobs. Aluminium-based refueling stations? Research? Cheap real state? I don't know, get cheap flights there, and people will find something useful to do.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  How about Heinlein's take? It starts out as a godforsaken penal colony, but then turns into a libertarian paradise for the self reliant. Here's the most compelling reason for starting settlement off planet: Polities that exist in a larger context will come to dominate human culture. A solar system wide culture based on relatively primitive, inefficient O'Neill colony habitats could still support a human population in the trillions with only known resources, solar power, and only small extrapolations from current technology.
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    It's cheaper to reverse-engineer the brain and rewire it into a fully adapted citizen than to send a person to the Moon with supplies for a week.
- rbanffy 8y ago
  > Aluminium-based refueling stations? To refuel what? > Cheap real state? Location, location, location. Shipping people and goods is expensive. Latencies for data are terrible.

outworlder 8y ago

> I've only read the books, not seen the TV version, but the Expanse universe relies on the "Epstein Drive" as a magical plot device to ignore any inconveniences of intra-system travel. That's because they are operating on a much grander scale and there are plot constraints(it would be too slow and boring otherwise). It doesn't take an Epstein drive to move stuff (or people) to and from Mars. Transit time will be very inconvenient, as wekk as launch windows. But this is not too different from early sea-based exploration on Earth, voyages would take months at a time. Now, if you want to go to Saturn and back in reasonable timeframes (or even further), then yes, that's beyond current capability. EDIT: The TV version is amazing. You should watch it. The attention to detail, while not perfect, is outstanding.