3 ms·

Take a look at the chart in this article from HumanProgress.Org https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=597 https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=597 Your s

Take a look at the chart in this article from HumanProgress.Org https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=597 https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=597 Your statement is only true if you move a significant number of items like "Dishwasher" from want to need. Clothing, Food, Appliances are all now significantly cheaper comparability. Housing is a serious issue that has not followed the progress made in other areas, but there is hope for the future even in that area.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
Prices of wants has significantly decreased, while needs have increased. [0] https://www.abi.org/newsroom/chart-of-the-day/price-changes-for-select-us-consumer-goods-and-services-and-wages https://www.abi.org/newsroom/chart-of-the-day/price-changes-...
dredmorbius 8y ago
Know your source: HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute with major support from the John Templeton Foundation and the Searle Freedom Trust, as well as additional funding from the Brinson Foundation and the Dian Graves Owen Foundation. https://humanprogress.org/about https://humanprogress.org/about I suspected as much. https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cato_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cato_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Templeton_Foundation https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Templeton_Foundat... https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Searle_Freedom_Trust https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Searle_Freedom_Trust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_P._Brinson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_P._Brinson DGOF are dark money with virtually no footprint: http://dian-graves-owen-foundation.idilogic.aidpage.com http://dian-graves-owen-foundation.idilogic.aidpage.com
- ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  I understand we all want to be wary about our sources, but a lot of what HumanProgress puts out is fairly simple and focused on the numbers. If you say this is how much a loaf of bread cost in 1965, and this is how much the average McDonalds worker was paid in 1965... then you do the same analysis for 2018, I think you have a interesting statement that could be shielded from politics. Obviously if you are making bigger statements about quality of life, what is a WANT, and what is a NEED, then things get complicated and bias comes in.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    The article starts out with multiple ideological and highly cherry-picking claims. That's what sent me looking for information on the source. It conflates mean measures of GDP with the far more valid median, or better, the quality of life of the least among us, the standard chosen by such eminant socialists as Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill. Its gadget-based definitions of wealth fly in the face of fundamental necessities: food, water, shelter, medicine. Again you'll find this argument dismissed in Smith. I've taken my own whack at it, Maslow's smartphone: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows_smartphone_the_role_of_technology_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows... See also Maslow's swimming pool: Yes, we've got a swimming pool. But that won't feed my children." The BBC's Malcolm Brabant, quoting a doctor's wife in "The Human Toll of Greek Austerity", describing the impacts of Greece's austerity measures.... https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3ey7d1/maslows_swimming_pool_greek_austerity/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3ey7d1/maslows... The most illuminating recasting of wealth and poverty I've seen in decades comes from a non-economist, Yonatan Zunger, who proposes the financial-shock wealth test: What is the largest unexpected financial shock you could sustain without the cost of that to you suddenly becoming ten times the original cost or more? That number isn’t something easy to calculate; it depends on whether you have a family that can help you out, on your income, on whether that shock involves losing your job (and thus your health insurance, if you live in the US), on whether you have access to any other sources of security (including public assistance). https://shift.newco.co/your-financial-shock-wealth-4845e6dc1d2f https://shift.newco.co/your-financial-shock-wealth-4845e6dc1... The other side of this connects to the financial instability of income. How variable is same, and to what extent does expected perturbation of income (job loss, illness, shorted wages, etc.) put a household in threat of eviction, foreclosure, etc. None of which are addressed by your source. Its framing of the question is such that its response isn't even wrong. It's utterly irrelevant.
    - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
      This is a great response, normally I don't complain about downvotes, but I honestly don't understand what could be wrong with your response to me. I made a simple statement, that was at least partially wrong, you replied with a ton of information so I could see another side to the issue. Your comment should be what Hacker News is about.
- hueving 8y ago
  Attack the facts or logic, not the source. Ad homs are just excuses to convince people already on your side to shut off their brains and bury their heads in the sand.

prolikewh0a 8y ago

Prices of wants has significantly decreased, while needs have increased. [0] https://www.abi.org/newsroom/chart-of-the-day/price-changes-for-select-us-consumer-goods-and-services-and-wages https://www.abi.org/newsroom/chart-of-the-day/price-changes-...

dredmorbius 8y ago

Know your source: HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute with major support from the John Templeton Foundation and the Searle Freedom Trust, as well as additional funding from the Brinson Foundation and the Dian Graves Owen Foundation. https://humanprogress.org/about https://humanprogress.org/about I suspected as much. https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cato_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cato_Institute https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Templeton_Foundation https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Templeton_Foundat... https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Searle_Freedom_Trust https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Searle_Freedom_Trust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_P._Brinson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_P._Brinson DGOF are dark money with virtually no footprint: http://dian-graves-owen-foundation.idilogic.aidpage.com http://dian-graves-owen-foundation.idilogic.aidpage.com

ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
I understand we all want to be wary about our sources, but a lot of what HumanProgress puts out is fairly simple and focused on the numbers. If you say this is how much a loaf of bread cost in 1965, and this is how much the average McDonalds worker was paid in 1965... then you do the same analysis for 2018, I think you have a interesting statement that could be shielded from politics. Obviously if you are making bigger statements about quality of life, what is a WANT, and what is a NEED, then things get complicated and bias comes in.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  The article starts out with multiple ideological and highly cherry-picking claims. That's what sent me looking for information on the source. It conflates mean measures of GDP with the far more valid median, or better, the quality of life of the least among us, the standard chosen by such eminant socialists as Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill. Its gadget-based definitions of wealth fly in the face of fundamental necessities: food, water, shelter, medicine. Again you'll find this argument dismissed in Smith. I've taken my own whack at it, Maslow's smartphone: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows_smartphone_the_role_of_technology_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows... See also Maslow's swimming pool: Yes, we've got a swimming pool. But that won't feed my children." The BBC's Malcolm Brabant, quoting a doctor's wife in "The Human Toll of Greek Austerity", describing the impacts of Greece's austerity measures.... https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3ey7d1/maslows_swimming_pool_greek_austerity/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3ey7d1/maslows... The most illuminating recasting of wealth and poverty I've seen in decades comes from a non-economist, Yonatan Zunger, who proposes the financial-shock wealth test: What is the largest unexpected financial shock you could sustain without the cost of that to you suddenly becoming ten times the original cost or more? That number isn’t something easy to calculate; it depends on whether you have a family that can help you out, on your income, on whether that shock involves losing your job (and thus your health insurance, if you live in the US), on whether you have access to any other sources of security (including public assistance). https://shift.newco.co/your-financial-shock-wealth-4845e6dc1d2f https://shift.newco.co/your-financial-shock-wealth-4845e6dc1... The other side of this connects to the financial instability of income. How variable is same, and to what extent does expected perturbation of income (job loss, illness, shorted wages, etc.) put a household in threat of eviction, foreclosure, etc. None of which are addressed by your source. Its framing of the question is such that its response isn't even wrong. It's utterly irrelevant.
  - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
    This is a great response, normally I don't complain about downvotes, but I honestly don't understand what could be wrong with your response to me. I made a simple statement, that was at least partially wrong, you replied with a ton of information so I could see another side to the issue. Your comment should be what Hacker News is about.
hueving 8y ago
Attack the facts or logic, not the source. Ad homs are just excuses to convince people already on your side to shut off their brains and bury their heads in the sand.