3 ms·

Who the hell wants to ship stuff 9AU plus or minus just to freeze it? No one. So if you're already out near Titan delta-V wise, Titan is the best place with lo

Who the hell wants to ship stuff 9AU plus or minus just to freeze it? No one. So if you're already out near Titan delta-V wise, Titan is the best place with lots of resources. Why not just build a sun shield in orbit with a bunch of black body radiators on the back? That would work. However, the cooling will be of much greater value if it's near other things of value. Or you know, use conventional refrigeration on Earth. Which will happen a lot, because there are lots of things of value on Earth. Pretty much anything is better than shipping it out or back from Saturn. If you're in the outer solar system, then pretty much anything is better than shipping it from Earth.

jandrese 8y ago
If you are in the outer solar system you won't have trouble freezing anything. "Cyrogenic industry" is freezing stuff. In the outer solar system that is like trying to sell sand at the beach. It makes a lot more sense to talk about Titan as the gas station of the outer Solar System. Exporting methane for all of the rockets flying around doing stuff.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  If you are in the outer solar system you won't have trouble freezing anything. It's not freezing things, it's cooling things which is key. At a random point in the outer solar system, to have a lot of cooling power, you need to build huge radiators. You need to supply coolant to flow through those radiators. On Titan, you just pump fluid from a lake. "Cyrogenic industry" is freezing stuff. Only in the simpleton view. Cryogenic industry is doing stuff that requires low temperatures. In the outer solar system that is like trying to sell sand at the beach. Industry doesn't happen at the beach. It happens someplace where there is easy shipment of resources and a source of labor. It makes a lot more sense to talk about Titan as the gas station of the outer Solar System. Exporting methane for all of the rockets flying around doing stuff. Which means that there will be industrial infrastructure there for dealing with methane. That in turn means that other uses for that methane will have an economic leg up.
- paulmd 8y ago
  Vacuum is widely known to be a pretty good insulator. Ever had a mug with vacuum insulation? They hold heat/cold very well. If you're doing industrial-scale processes in outer space, you're going to need some pretty massive radiators. A cold planet with lots of liquid coolant available is much more ideal. Melting/vaporizing ice from the Kuiper belt might work OK, but it's also likely to be full of dust and other shit that will clog your cooling system up.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > Vacuum is widely known to be a pretty good insulator. Tangential question: is there a better one? Is a better one physically possible?
    - rcxdude 8y ago
      Yes: you still have radiation transferring heat. Multiple layers of opaque (and ideally reflective) material between you and space will increase the insulation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
        Thanks. I wasn't sure this concept would work.
rbanffy 8y ago
> Titan is the best place with lots of resources. Ideally, you'd want to manufacture computers and equipment using local materials and Titan's surface is mostly water ice and hydrocarbons. You may get away with graphene-based electronics, using ice as a building material and nuclear power shipped from elsewhere. Every location will eventually evolve manufacturing processes that are adapted to local chemistry (and import what isn't)
- jandrese 8y ago
  Maybe they could make a lot of materials out of carbon fiber/nanotubes/etc...? Dunno about the composition of the crust and what you would be able to mine locally.

jandrese 8y ago

If you are in the outer solar system you won't have trouble freezing anything. "Cyrogenic industry" is freezing stuff. In the outer solar system that is like trying to sell sand at the beach. It makes a lot more sense to talk about Titan as the gas station of the outer Solar System. Exporting methane for all of the rockets flying around doing stuff.

stcredzero 8y ago
If you are in the outer solar system you won't have trouble freezing anything. It's not freezing things, it's cooling things which is key. At a random point in the outer solar system, to have a lot of cooling power, you need to build huge radiators. You need to supply coolant to flow through those radiators. On Titan, you just pump fluid from a lake. "Cyrogenic industry" is freezing stuff. Only in the simpleton view. Cryogenic industry is doing stuff that requires low temperatures. In the outer solar system that is like trying to sell sand at the beach. Industry doesn't happen at the beach. It happens someplace where there is easy shipment of resources and a source of labor. It makes a lot more sense to talk about Titan as the gas station of the outer Solar System. Exporting methane for all of the rockets flying around doing stuff. Which means that there will be industrial infrastructure there for dealing with methane. That in turn means that other uses for that methane will have an economic leg up.
paulmd 8y ago
Vacuum is widely known to be a pretty good insulator. Ever had a mug with vacuum insulation? They hold heat/cold very well. If you're doing industrial-scale processes in outer space, you're going to need some pretty massive radiators. A cold planet with lots of liquid coolant available is much more ideal. Melting/vaporizing ice from the Kuiper belt might work OK, but it's also likely to be full of dust and other shit that will clog your cooling system up.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > Vacuum is widely known to be a pretty good insulator. Tangential question: is there a better one? Is a better one physically possible?
  - rcxdude 8y ago
    Yes: you still have radiation transferring heat. Multiple layers of opaque (and ideally reflective) material between you and space will increase the insulation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      Thanks. I wasn't sure this concept would work.

rbanffy 8y ago

> Titan is the best place with lots of resources. Ideally, you'd want to manufacture computers and equipment using local materials and Titan's surface is mostly water ice and hydrocarbons. You may get away with graphene-based electronics, using ice as a building material and nuclear power shipped from elsewhere. Every location will eventually evolve manufacturing processes that are adapted to local chemistry (and import what isn't)

jandrese 8y ago
Maybe they could make a lot of materials out of carbon fiber/nanotubes/etc...? Dunno about the composition of the crust and what you would be able to mine locally.