5 ms·

> It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. Yes, but this has the opposite effect from

> It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. Yes, but this has the opposite effect from what you'd expect. The US has higher disposable income, both per capita and at the median, than Europe does. That means that, even accounting for the greater cost of healthcare in the US, households end up with greater purchasing power. That's true across the country, but if you're comparing tech jobs, the effect is even more pronounced, because most tech companies provide health plans that ultimately are comparable (in terms of out-of-pocket expenses) to coverage in most of Europe. So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits. As you point out, there may be other reasons that someone might not want to move (or be able to move), but there's no ignoring that salaries, disposable income, and purchasing power are dramatically higher in the US. [0] London, for example, typically pays about half what you get in NYC or SF, for the same job title at the same company.

vilmosi 8y ago
>>> So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. And you'll get decent health insurance, sure. But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc)
- woolvalley 8y ago
  As someone who moved from a developed country with single payer healthcare, it's actually better. No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist. The pay differential makes up the difference plus way more.
  - vilmosi 8y ago
    > No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist I don't want to start a universal vs private debate, it's been done before. But private insurance as a job benefit exists independently of a government run program (mostly).
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    I did the same and no it's not better. It's just that wherever you moved from was badly managed. It doesn't have to be that way. It really sucks being at the mercy of the health insurance company if you happen to actually need to use your private health insurance for anything more than incidental usage.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs". > But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc) ...so? That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities.
  - vilmosi 8y ago
    > I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs Got any numbers on this? I was under the impression that effective tax rate is pretty much the same (if not lower, depending on your income) in London vs New York [0]. Could be wrong. [0]http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/168817-taxes-city-index http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/168817-ta... >>> As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. Right, so it works like universal healthcare... Great. You forgot to mention your deductible. Is that 0 true? Is it 0 to most people? > That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. Except private insurance in Europe is basically subsidised by government programs, which is why they are so much cheaper than in the US. Also, co-pays may exit, but do deductibles? I'm not aware of that. > It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities Sure. You can also just get extra private insurance in those countries too.
    - chimeracoder 8y ago

vilmosi 8y ago

>>> So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. And you'll get decent health insurance, sure. But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc)

woolvalley 8y ago
As someone who moved from a developed country with single payer healthcare, it's actually better. No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist. The pay differential makes up the difference plus way more.
- vilmosi 8y ago
  > No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist I don't want to start a universal vs private debate, it's been done before. But private insurance as a job benefit exists independently of a government run program (mostly).
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  I did the same and no it's not better. It's just that wherever you moved from was badly managed. It doesn't have to be that way. It really sucks being at the mercy of the health insurance company if you happen to actually need to use your private health insurance for anything more than incidental usage.
chimeracoder 8y ago
> If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs". > But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc) ...so? That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities.
- vilmosi 8y ago
  > I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs Got any numbers on this? I was under the impression that effective tax rate is pretty much the same (if not lower, depending on your income) in London vs New York [0]. Could be wrong. [0]http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/168817-taxes-city-index http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/168817-ta... >>> As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. Right, so it works like universal healthcare... Great. You forgot to mention your deductible. Is that 0 true? Is it 0 to most people? > That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. Except private insurance in Europe is basically subsidised by government programs, which is why they are so much cheaper than in the US. Also, co-pays may exit, but do deductibles? I'm not aware of that. > It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities Sure. You can also just get extra private insurance in those countries too.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago