5 ms·

Funny.. in Europe, Germans are considered hard-working and Greeks typically "lazy". According to these stats, the truth is completely the opposite!

by hmexx 8y ago

aserafini 8y ago
I live and work in Germany but I am not German. I believe the work culture here is: if you are having to work outside core hours, you are ineffective and should have managed your workload better. Consequently I believe there is greater focus on continuously doing the most important task during work rather than occupying oneself with 'busy work' that is prevalent in many other work cultures.
- kuerbel 8y ago
  I live in Germany as well (I'm Swiss), and people usually get free time in exchange for overtime and not money around here. I think that explains it better, because overtime is pretty prevalent - at least in some jobs. Others not so much. You usually don't have to work more than your usual 8 hours/day in a super market. As a software engineer however...
  - RobertoG 8y ago
    I don't know why is necessary to explain anything. Maybe the explanation is that the Germans work less hours. It would be logic, a richer country, a better life. Is that shameful or something?
    - kjeetgill 8y ago
      I think the desire to explain something comes from the data not lining up with expectations. You either want to explain why the data lacks details and reality DOES line up with intuition OR why the intuition was wrong or prejudicial. I get it, stereotypes can suck and make bad null hypotheses but thats how these things go.
      - RobertoG 8y ago
        I get it, but there are two ways to solve it. You can accept the data and change your theory or you can ignore the data and keep your theory. The more simple theory here is, obviously, that the Greeks work more. It bothers me that many people in a community of theoretically science orientated people, as HN, choose the more complicated explanation by default. "thats how these things go" is a really low standard, by the way.
        mmt 8y ago
        I'm a bit confused as to what your thesis is, but perhaps it's because I'm distracted by the fact that there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the data show. FTA: >The concept used is the total number of hours worked over the year divided by the average number of people in employment. (emphasis mine) My understanding is that the stereotypes are about "Germans" and "Greeks", which implies total populations (presumably defined by residency or nationality or something similar), but that data uses, as a denominator, only that portion of the population which is employed. The inclusion of the population at large, or, more importantly, the population that could be employed, is discussed elsewhere in the thread (outside of the notion of stereotypes) as being a more useful indication of something like labor output (at least as compared with potential total output), especially when compared with GDP.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > people usually get free time in exchange for overtime and not money Either of those are unique among a professional largely salaried.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    I really wish flexitime was a thing in more countries. I'd happily work 45 hours a week in exchange for an extra couple of weeks of annual leave. 4 weeks (Australian standard leave) just isn't long enough for a good trip anywhere, especially since you usually end up burning a week of leave through the year for random things.
    - arvinsim 8y ago
      Most Asian countries only have 15 days annual leaves...
  - phillc73 8y ago
    It's the same where I work in Austria. By law, I cannot work more than 10 hours a day and a 50 hour week (although maybe this changes to 12 hour days and 60 hours a week maximums soon). Any hours worked in excess of 40 per week become compensatory time. Added to this, 90% of staff where I work have left by latest 14:00 Friday afternoon. This also seems pretty common in Austria generally.
- RobertoG 8y ago
  So, if the Greeks work less hours is because they are lazy and if they work more is because they are inefficient. It seems they can't really win.
  - tormeh 8y ago
    It's not that they're lazy, they're just clever. Generalizing, in southern countries, job prospects are usually tied to your last name and other things not tied to performance. So people slack off at work because they're not dumb. So their bosses ask them to work longer to compensate.
  - nemonemo 8y ago
    No, the correct conclusion is that the metric “work hour” is just likely inconsistent and has little value by itself. The real tragedy is that beaureaucrats or media use these weak metrics to back up their claims one way or another..
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
hrktb 8y ago
There is a “Full time part time employment” category that shows the split for part time workers. Germany has a bigger proportion of part timers than Greece, which explains the numbers.

Funny.. in Europe, Germans are considered hard-working and Greeks typically "lazy". According to these stats, the truth is completely the opposite!

by hmexx 8y ago

Funny.. in Europe, Germans are considered hard-working and Greeks typically "lazy". According to these stats, the truth is completely the opposite!

aserafini 8y ago

I live and work in Germany but I am not German. I believe the work culture here is: if you are having to work outside core hours, you are ineffective and should have managed your workload better. Consequently I believe there is greater focus on continuously doing the most important task during work rather than occupying oneself with 'busy work' that is prevalent in many other work cultures.

kuerbel 8y ago
I live in Germany as well (I'm Swiss), and people usually get free time in exchange for overtime and not money around here. I think that explains it better, because overtime is pretty prevalent - at least in some jobs. Others not so much. You usually don't have to work more than your usual 8 hours/day in a super market. As a software engineer however...
- RobertoG 8y ago
  I don't know why is necessary to explain anything. Maybe the explanation is that the Germans work less hours. It would be logic, a richer country, a better life. Is that shameful or something?
  - kjeetgill 8y ago
    I think the desire to explain something comes from the data not lining up with expectations. You either want to explain why the data lacks details and reality DOES line up with intuition OR why the intuition was wrong or prejudicial. I get it, stereotypes can suck and make bad null hypotheses but thats how these things go.
    - RobertoG 8y ago
      I get it, but there are two ways to solve it. You can accept the data and change your theory or you can ignore the data and keep your theory. The more simple theory here is, obviously, that the Greeks work more. It bothers me that many people in a community of theoretically science orientated people, as HN, choose the more complicated explanation by default. "thats how these things go" is a really low standard, by the way.
      - mmt 8y ago
        I'm a bit confused as to what your thesis is, but perhaps it's because I'm distracted by the fact that there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the data show. FTA: >The concept used is the total number of hours worked over the year divided by the average number of people in employment. (emphasis mine) My understanding is that the stereotypes are about "Germans" and "Greeks", which implies total populations (presumably defined by residency or nationality or something similar), but that data uses, as a denominator, only that portion of the population which is employed. The inclusion of the population at large, or, more importantly, the population that could be employed, is discussed elsewhere in the thread (outside of the notion of stereotypes) as being a more useful indication of something like labor output (at least as compared with potential total output), especially when compared with GDP.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > people usually get free time in exchange for overtime and not money Either of those are unique among a professional largely salaried.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  I really wish flexitime was a thing in more countries. I'd happily work 45 hours a week in exchange for an extra couple of weeks of annual leave. 4 weeks (Australian standard leave) just isn't long enough for a good trip anywhere, especially since you usually end up burning a week of leave through the year for random things.
  - arvinsim 8y ago
    Most Asian countries only have 15 days annual leaves...
- phillc73 8y ago
  It's the same where I work in Austria. By law, I cannot work more than 10 hours a day and a 50 hour week (although maybe this changes to 12 hour days and 60 hours a week maximums soon). Any hours worked in excess of 40 per week become compensatory time. Added to this, 90% of staff where I work have left by latest 14:00 Friday afternoon. This also seems pretty common in Austria generally.
RobertoG 8y ago
So, if the Greeks work less hours is because they are lazy and if they work more is because they are inefficient. It seems they can't really win.
- tormeh 8y ago
  It's not that they're lazy, they're just clever. Generalizing, in southern countries, job prospects are usually tied to your last name and other things not tied to performance. So people slack off at work because they're not dumb. So their bosses ask them to work longer to compensate.
- nemonemo 8y ago
  No, the correct conclusion is that the metric “work hour” is just likely inconsistent and has little value by itself. The real tragedy is that beaureaucrats or media use these weak metrics to back up their claims one way or another..

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

hrktb 8y ago

There is a “Full time part time employment” category that shows the split for part time workers. Germany has a bigger proportion of part timers than Greece, which explains the numbers.