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Europe is not falling behind the US. That's bullshit. I'm an American living in Amsterdam for a decade or so, so I have some perspective. All those companies y

Europe is not falling behind the US. That's bullshit. I'm an American living in Amsterdam for a decade or so, so I have some perspective. All those companies you mentioned are prominent, but they are only important because they are a few percent cheaper or more useful or have better marketing. But they come at a high cost to society. European cultures are different. It moves slower. Rules are more acceptable. But the things it produces are more polished. Amsterdam is better than any US city, for example.

czardoz 8y ago
> But they come at a high cost to society. That's such a hand-wavy argument. Can you prove that the cost of these laws is less? > Amsterdam is better than any US city, for example. Yes, for you. Not everyone's going to agree with that.
- akvadrako 8y ago
  Not everyone has to agree, but to argue that Europe is falling behind you need to provide some evidence which is greater than all cultural differences. For example, the Neanderthals are falling behind humans because they are all dead.
  - czardoz 8y ago
    > but to argue that Europe is falling behind you need to provide some evidence which is greater than all cultural differences. The parent post does provide evidence: no EU tech companies have hit Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft scale. That's not a cultural difference, it shows that EU has not been as successful economically on the internet.
    - walterstucco 8y ago
      Are you really implying that in Europe there are no big tech companies just because in Europe fintech is stronger than search engines? If you look at fortune 500, 143 companies are north American and 143 are European But in 2001 215 were north American while only 158 were from Europe EU market is just more fragmented not less innovative
    - akvadrako 8y ago
      That is a cultural reference because Europeans do care that much about scale. That is only important as a show of power. But it has little positive balance on everyday life. So it’s a difference in values.
      - czardoz 8y ago
        > That is a cultural reference because Europeans do care that much about scale. That is only important as a show of power. I'm not really talking about technical scale here. I'm talking about economic scale. In those terms, it does indeed seem that the EU is falling behind. Also, it is not just a show of power, because these companies are reaping economic benefits from their power. > But it has little positive balance on everyday life. That's really your personal opinion. Many people (me included) would argue that the scale of these companies definitely makes a difference in your everyday life.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        Whitestrake 8y ago
        > Many people (me included) would argue that the scale of these companies definitely makes a difference Many people would then be arguing sideways past the GP comment, which made no claim to the extent of the difference, rather that it was not a positive one. As you say, though, it's definitely objectively clear from an economical standpoint.
    - orf 8y ago
      > no EU tech companies have hit Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft scale. SAP and Accenture are up there. I get your point though.
rorykoehler 8y ago
I'm a European (born and bred) who just renounced US citizenship (gained through parent) and I have to counter you. Yes Amsterdam is way better than any US city but that has nothing to do with internet entrepreneurship. The EU, European governments and European culture in general do not support entrepreneurs. I bootstrapped a company in Berlin and all the government did was try find ways to shut us down. Our main competitor (Rocket Internet company) had the means to deal with this BS but as we were a small scrappy bootstrapped company we were treated like dirt. The Stripe story is very telling in this regard. Before moving to SV they tried to launch with Irish banks as partners and were laughed at for being naive children. No one is laughing anymore.
- akvadrako 8y ago
  That example isn’t very convincing. I’ve only seen 1 or so service use stripe and their transaction costs are very high. You can’t call it’s existence positive without evoking some cultural values. Plus, Europe is way ahead of the us in terms of banking convinence and efficiency.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    Stripe is a multi-billion dollar company. It could have been Irish based for free. The Irish government spend billions to attract companies like Stripe. Also Stripe is a global brand now used by tens of thousands of businesses.
    - inflagranti 8y ago
      Wasn't Theranos multibillion valued at some point? Not trying to imply anything about Stripe being fraudulent, just evoking an extreme example of clear overvaluation to put such numbers into perspective. Stripe might also very well not have made much sense for Irish banks and a lot for US ones. Time will tell whether that was a mistake.
      - rorykoehler 8y ago
        Nonsense on all counts.
syndacks 8y ago
Can confirm Amsterdam is better than any American city.

czardoz 8y ago

> But they come at a high cost to society. That's such a hand-wavy argument. Can you prove that the cost of these laws is less? > Amsterdam is better than any US city, for example. Yes, for you. Not everyone's going to agree with that.

akvadrako 8y ago
Not everyone has to agree, but to argue that Europe is falling behind you need to provide some evidence which is greater than all cultural differences. For example, the Neanderthals are falling behind humans because they are all dead.
- czardoz 8y ago
  > but to argue that Europe is falling behind you need to provide some evidence which is greater than all cultural differences. The parent post does provide evidence: no EU tech companies have hit Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft scale. That's not a cultural difference, it shows that EU has not been as successful economically on the internet.
  - walterstucco 8y ago
    Are you really implying that in Europe there are no big tech companies just because in Europe fintech is stronger than search engines? If you look at fortune 500, 143 companies are north American and 143 are European But in 2001 215 were north American while only 158 were from Europe EU market is just more fragmented not less innovative
  - akvadrako 8y ago
    That is a cultural reference because Europeans do care that much about scale. That is only important as a show of power. But it has little positive balance on everyday life. So it’s a difference in values.
    - czardoz 8y ago
      > That is a cultural reference because Europeans do care that much about scale. That is only important as a show of power. I'm not really talking about technical scale here. I'm talking about economic scale. In those terms, it does indeed seem that the EU is falling behind. Also, it is not just a show of power, because these companies are reaping economic benefits from their power. > But it has little positive balance on everyday life. That's really your personal opinion. Many people (me included) would argue that the scale of these companies definitely makes a difference in your everyday life.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - Whitestrake 8y ago
        > Many people (me included) would argue that the scale of these companies definitely makes a difference Many people would then be arguing sideways past the GP comment, which made no claim to the extent of the difference, rather that it was not a positive one. As you say, though, it's definitely objectively clear from an economical standpoint.
  - orf 8y ago
    > no EU tech companies have hit Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft scale. SAP and Accenture are up there. I get your point though.

rorykoehler 8y ago

I'm a European (born and bred) who just renounced US citizenship (gained through parent) and I have to counter you. Yes Amsterdam is way better than any US city but that has nothing to do with internet entrepreneurship. The EU, European governments and European culture in general do not support entrepreneurs. I bootstrapped a company in Berlin and all the government did was try find ways to shut us down. Our main competitor (Rocket Internet company) had the means to deal with this BS but as we were a small scrappy bootstrapped company we were treated like dirt. The Stripe story is very telling in this regard. Before moving to SV they tried to launch with Irish banks as partners and were laughed at for being naive children. No one is laughing anymore.

akvadrako 8y ago
That example isn’t very convincing. I’ve only seen 1 or so service use stripe and their transaction costs are very high. You can’t call it’s existence positive without evoking some cultural values. Plus, Europe is way ahead of the us in terms of banking convinence and efficiency.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  Stripe is a multi-billion dollar company. It could have been Irish based for free. The Irish government spend billions to attract companies like Stripe. Also Stripe is a global brand now used by tens of thousands of businesses.
  - inflagranti 8y ago
    Wasn't Theranos multibillion valued at some point? Not trying to imply anything about Stripe being fraudulent, just evoking an extreme example of clear overvaluation to put such numbers into perspective. Stripe might also very well not have made much sense for Irish banks and a lot for US ones. Time will tell whether that was a mistake.
    - rorykoehler 8y ago
      Nonsense on all counts.

syndacks 8y ago

Can confirm Amsterdam is better than any American city.