4 ms·

They do that? I never noticed anything like that. Do you have a source? And while this bill indeed is a disaster, I really don't mind some extra regulations. T

by DJHenk 8y ago

They do that? I never noticed anything like that. Do you have a source? And while this bill indeed is a disaster, I really don't mind some extra regulations. They might not get it right the first time, but seeing how normal Americans get screwed and exploited over and over by internet companies, I think it's better than having no regulation at all.

woolvalley 8y ago
I have coworkers here in the USA, from Europe. You do know the pay is significantly higher for software engineers in the USA compared to anywhere in the EU correct?
- DJHenk 8y ago
  I don't know that. It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. But even leaving that aside, wages and standard of living differ already significant within Europe and I assume the same goes for the United States. My colleagues and I live a comfortable life with a pay well above average in my country (The Netherlands) and while no country is perfect, I don't think I'd move away from family and friends even if I was payed double overseas.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. Yes, but this has the opposite effect from what you'd expect. The US has higher disposable income, both per capita and at the median, than Europe does. That means that, even accounting for the greater cost of healthcare in the US, households end up with greater purchasing power. That's true across the country, but if you're comparing tech jobs, the effect is even more pronounced, because most tech companies provide health plans that ultimately are comparable (in terms of out-of-pocket expenses) to coverage in most of Europe. So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits. As you point out, there may be other reasons that someone might not want to move (or be able to move), but there's no ignoring that salaries, disposable income, and purchasing power are dramatically higher in the US. [0] London, for example, typically pays about half what you get in NYC or SF, for the same job title at the same company.
    - vilmosi 8y ago
      >>> So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. And you'll get decent health insurance, sure. But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc)
      - woolvalley 8y ago
        As someone who moved from a developed country with single payer healthcare, it's actually better. No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist. The pay differential makes up the difference plus way more.
        vilmosi 8y ago
        > No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist I don't want to start a universal vs private debate, it's been done before. But private insurance as a job benefit exists independently of a government run program (mostly).
        rorykoehler 8y ago
        I did the same and no it's not better. It's just that wherever you moved from was badly managed. It doesn't have to be that way. It really sucks being at the mercy of the health insurance company if you happen to actually need to use your private health insurance for anything more than incidental usage.
      - chimeracoder 8y ago
        > If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs". > But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc) ...so? That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities.
- _Tev 8y ago
  You do know that quality of life in the USA is significantly worse? (this has been discussed on HN ad nauseam, don't assume someone completely missed all of that)

by DJHenk 8y ago

woolvalley 8y ago

I have coworkers here in the USA, from Europe. You do know the pay is significantly higher for software engineers in the USA compared to anywhere in the EU correct?

DJHenk 8y ago
I don't know that. It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. But even leaving that aside, wages and standard of living differ already significant within Europe and I assume the same goes for the United States. My colleagues and I live a comfortable life with a pay well above average in my country (The Netherlands) and while no country is perfect, I don't think I'd move away from family and friends even if I was payed double overseas.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > It is not enough to compare raw numbers, since the cost of living is so different. Healthcare is a famous example. Yes, but this has the opposite effect from what you'd expect. The US has higher disposable income, both per capita and at the median, than Europe does. That means that, even accounting for the greater cost of healthcare in the US, households end up with greater purchasing power. That's true across the country, but if you're comparing tech jobs, the effect is even more pronounced, because most tech companies provide health plans that ultimately are comparable (in terms of out-of-pocket expenses) to coverage in most of Europe. So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits. As you point out, there may be other reasons that someone might not want to move (or be able to move), but there's no ignoring that salaries, disposable income, and purchasing power are dramatically higher in the US. [0] London, for example, typically pays about half what you get in NYC or SF, for the same job title at the same company.
  - vilmosi 8y ago
    >>> So you end up with significantly higher salaries[0], much lower taxes, and comparable health benefits If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. And you'll get decent health insurance, sure. But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc)
    - woolvalley 8y ago
      As someone who moved from a developed country with single payer healthcare, it's actually better. No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist. The pay differential makes up the difference plus way more.
      - vilmosi 8y ago
        > No more waiting 3 months to see a specialist I don't want to start a universal vs private debate, it's been done before. But private insurance as a job benefit exists independently of a government run program (mostly).
      - rorykoehler 8y ago
        I did the same and no it's not better. It's just that wherever you moved from was badly managed. It doesn't have to be that way. It really sucks being at the mercy of the health insurance company if you happen to actually need to use your private health insurance for anything more than incidental usage.
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > If you're talking about Silicon Valley or New York, taxes won't be that different. I live in New York City. My taxes (as a percentage of my income) are substantially lower than they would be if I worked the same job in London, Berlin, Paris, Stockholm, Amsterdam, or any of the European cities that are considered to be "tech hubs". > But it's still insurance (co-pays, premiums, only covered at these clinics etc) ...so? That's the case in most of Europe too, with the UK being the main exception. Most European companies use some form of private insurance or have out-of-pocket expenditures. As far as I'm concerned, none of those "problems" exist. I have no monthly premiums to pay, most copays are $0 or close to it, and I don't think twice about finding in-network providers. It's much easier for me to book a specialist if I need to than it would be in any of those other cities.
_Tev 8y ago
You do know that quality of life in the USA is significantly worse? (this has been discussed on HN ad nauseam, don't assume someone completely missed all of that)