12 ms·

Such a great system. I don't know why it's not used more often.

by rcpt 8y ago

woolvalley 8y ago
It becomes a tax increase on SFH, which is a powerful political block in many countries.
- spollo 8y ago
  What does SFH stand for?
  - germinalphrase 8y ago
    Single family home (?)
    - woolvalley 8y ago
      That is correct
munificent 8y ago
One of the things I always find frustrating about economists and economic writing is how often it completely and deliberately disregards the humanity of the actors in the system. My hunch is that the people who are drawn to economics like it specifically because it attempts to offer a cleaner, more mechanical understanding of human behavior than humans actually demonstrate. But, of course, using that model to then derive policy is obviously flawed since your model doesn't accurately capture the essential features of the objects being modeled. If we let economists design furniture, every chair would be a miserably unpleasant cube whose dimensions match the median posterior. Land value tax does have a lot going for it, but it overlooks one critical component: Humans have a fundamental desire for stability, especially in where they live. I do not want my home to be a rectangle of maximum market efficiency. I want it to be a place where it's worth the effort to garden because I know I'll get to watch those plants grow over the coming years. I want it to be a calm respite, a sanctuary that I can rely on in the face of the chaos of the larger world. And, as I get older and my ability to generate revenue natural declines, I want some confidence that hard work I did when I was younger will enable me to live out the rest of my years with some degree of stability. Of course, our desire for stability needs to be weighed against the desires of the larger community. But you do that by balancing those desires, not by completely ignoring one half of the equation. I'm not sure what an ideal solution for housing is, but I'm certain it's not based on a slavish devotion to market efficiency.
- germinalphrase 8y ago
  Why would land value tax undermine housing stability?
  - prutschman 8y ago
    The unimproved value of land is still a function of its proximity to other desirable things. Barring remodeling, it's not generally the value of the building on a piece of land that goes up over time.
  - supertrope 8y ago
    gentrification
- yonran 8y ago
  There’s no insurmountable conflict between stability and efficiency. Just as landlords offer 10-year leases to commercial tenants who desire stability, the government can offer 10-year (or longer) insurance products against the risk of increased land value.
- opportune 8y ago
  This is just “I got mine” as the economists. Meanwhile younger people who want to buy homes are unable to enjoy the way of life that you are, because you were able to buy a home before they had even graduated middle school Why should society have to slow down just to help you and your little old house? You can just move somewhere else with a garden. Everybody else is also trying to work and live their lives. This isn’t little house on the prairie, it’s quite selfish to buy a house in a city (an inherently dynamic landscape) and then expect the rest of the world to freeze in time
  - watwut 8y ago
    When an elderly person want to live nearby family and keep social ties they were building whole life, it is "go away I want to live here too your relationship and you don't matter at all. Just go elsewhere, living among strangers as you are getting weaker and older is totally the same and I dont care about you at all. It is totally our right to kick you out of your house because the place where it is suddenly became in demand." Simultaneously we are collectively complaining that people don't communicate or form bonds as they used to and how community died yadda yadda and people are lonely, especially men and how sad it all is yadda. Guess what, this attitude kills any kind of in-person bonds or willingness to invest into them way more then much maligned social networks.
crdoconnor 8y ago
It's not a great move career-wise to recommend something like this as an economist. Lots of funding/jobs/prestige comes via wealthy interest groups who would absolutely loathe a land value tax. It was mooted in the UK last year and some of the newspapers (owned by wealthy landowners) went ballistic: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4575382/How-Labour-garden-tax-hit-YOU.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4575382/How-Labour-g... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-tax-hit-10million/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-t... The stock market would likely take a dive if this was implemented too, since a lot of company profits are predicated upon parasitic land value extraction (Trump's businesses are a good example). Politicians are usually wary of policies that might cause the stock market to take a dive because of the optics.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Trump's businesses are private and don't have much to do with the stock market. Or are you saying that he would be even more likely to default on loans and the banks would feel it hard?
maxerickson 8y ago
Politics is corrupt and favors the few. Especially local politics.

Such a great system. I don't know why it's not used more often.

by rcpt 8y ago

Such a great system. I don't know why it's not used more often.

woolvalley 8y ago

It becomes a tax increase on SFH, which is a powerful political block in many countries.

spollo 8y ago
What does SFH stand for?
- germinalphrase 8y ago
  Single family home (?)
  - woolvalley 8y ago
    That is correct

munificent 8y ago

One of the things I always find frustrating about economists and economic writing is how often it completely and deliberately disregards the humanity of the actors in the system. My hunch is that the people who are drawn to economics like it specifically because it attempts to offer a cleaner, more mechanical understanding of human behavior than humans actually demonstrate. But, of course, using that model to then derive policy is obviously flawed since your model doesn't accurately capture the essential features of the objects being modeled. If we let economists design furniture, every chair would be a miserably unpleasant cube whose dimensions match the median posterior. Land value tax does have a lot going for it, but it overlooks one critical component: Humans have a fundamental desire for stability, especially in where they live. I do not want my home to be a rectangle of maximum market efficiency. I want it to be a place where it's worth the effort to garden because I know I'll get to watch those plants grow over the coming years. I want it to be a calm respite, a sanctuary that I can rely on in the face of the chaos of the larger world. And, as I get older and my ability to generate revenue natural declines, I want some confidence that hard work I did when I was younger will enable me to live out the rest of my years with some degree of stability. Of course, our desire for stability needs to be weighed against the desires of the larger community. But you do that by balancing those desires, not by completely ignoring one half of the equation. I'm not sure what an ideal solution for housing is, but I'm certain it's not based on a slavish devotion to market efficiency.

germinalphrase 8y ago
Why would land value tax undermine housing stability?
- prutschman 8y ago
  The unimproved value of land is still a function of its proximity to other desirable things. Barring remodeling, it's not generally the value of the building on a piece of land that goes up over time.
- supertrope 8y ago
  gentrification
yonran 8y ago
There’s no insurmountable conflict between stability and efficiency. Just as landlords offer 10-year leases to commercial tenants who desire stability, the government can offer 10-year (or longer) insurance products against the risk of increased land value.
opportune 8y ago
This is just “I got mine” as the economists. Meanwhile younger people who want to buy homes are unable to enjoy the way of life that you are, because you were able to buy a home before they had even graduated middle school Why should society have to slow down just to help you and your little old house? You can just move somewhere else with a garden. Everybody else is also trying to work and live their lives. This isn’t little house on the prairie, it’s quite selfish to buy a house in a city (an inherently dynamic landscape) and then expect the rest of the world to freeze in time
- watwut 8y ago
  When an elderly person want to live nearby family and keep social ties they were building whole life, it is "go away I want to live here too your relationship and you don't matter at all. Just go elsewhere, living among strangers as you are getting weaker and older is totally the same and I dont care about you at all. It is totally our right to kick you out of your house because the place where it is suddenly became in demand." Simultaneously we are collectively complaining that people don't communicate or form bonds as they used to and how community died yadda yadda and people are lonely, especially men and how sad it all is yadda. Guess what, this attitude kills any kind of in-person bonds or willingness to invest into them way more then much maligned social networks.

crdoconnor 8y ago

It's not a great move career-wise to recommend something like this as an economist. Lots of funding/jobs/prestige comes via wealthy interest groups who would absolutely loathe a land value tax. It was mooted in the UK last year and some of the newspapers (owned by wealthy landowners) went ballistic: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4575382/How-Labour-garden-tax-hit-YOU.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4575382/How-Labour-g... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-tax-hit-10million/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-t... The stock market would likely take a dive if this was implemented too, since a lot of company profits are predicated upon parasitic land value extraction (Trump's businesses are a good example). Politicians are usually wary of policies that might cause the stock market to take a dive because of the optics.

maxerickson 8y ago
Trump's businesses are private and don't have much to do with the stock market. Or are you saying that he would be even more likely to default on loans and the banks would feel it hard?

maxerickson 8y ago

Politics is corrupt and favors the few. Especially local politics.