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> Rainway also suggests that Epic, the company behind Fortnite, should “do a better job at educating their users on these malicious programs and helping them un

> Rainway also suggests that Epic, the company behind Fortnite, should “do a better job at educating their users on these malicious programs and helping them understand how airtight Fortnite’s systems are at preventing cheating”. Seems like an iffy suggestion seeing as people don't listen to security-related warnings very often https://phys.org/news/2016-08-people-software-percent.html https://phys.org/news/2016-08-people-software-percent.html. Also if some of these programs actually work as advertised, then are Fortnight's anti-cheat systems really that airtight?

jtokoph 8y ago
My problem with this statement from the article is that this kind of warning from a gaming company will be ignored by players. Players will just rationalize it as "they are giving a BS warning because they don't want me to cheat".
- GrumpyNl 8y ago
  Reset his player stats and he will get the message.
  - bovermyer 8y ago
    That's not enough. Cheaters should be publicly outed in a way that significantly harms their lives and discourages others from following a similar path. Not actual violence, mind you. Something like making it more difficult to get a job, or book a plane ticket, or similar.
    - cuckcuckspruce 8y ago
      Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly and give you a chance to clarify if I am misunderstanding (instead of immediately assuming the least charitable interpretation). Are you suggesting that cheaters in video games (not played in a competition for money, just playing casually) should suffer career, travel, and social consequences in the real world away from the game?
      - ygaf 8y ago
        Well, online recreation is as real as online discussion. There's people on the other end etc. On the other hand, if a kid spoils a game in a real-world playground, we don't give criminal records for that. On the other other hand, a game company is being harmed when you spoil their games.
      - bovermyer 8y ago
        Yes, that is what I'm suggesting. Primarily as a deterrent, rather than a punishment. And the usual stipulations about minors being treated differently than adults apply.
      - Karunamon 8y ago
        Why should they not? Should antisocial and deceptive behavior like this be flatly ignored “because it’s just a game”?
        Avamander 8y ago
        Cheating in a game should always and only be dealt with by the game company itself. Having some real-world consequences what is quite literally meaningless is absurd the very least. Following that train of thought, should we start punishing people who cuss behind their consoles, PCs or phones? That's also "bad" and "not conducive to the society". Oh and let's not forget, if people lose more than just the satisfaction of winning when someone steals their win with cheats I'd say they also have issues they should deal with. In addition to that cheating in games has been a common first step towards a good career in the field of cybersecurity, if they'd been punished irl for cheating I'm quite certain they wouldn't be working in that field - do we really want to go on figuratively or literally slapping children for what really are just minor deviations from the regular? Your train of thought is similar to those who think zero-tolerance policies are a good idea - punishment on it's own never is.
        Karunamon 8y ago
        >Having some real-world consequences what is quite literally meaningless is absurd the very least. "Quite literally meaningless" is a massive stretch. At the very least, you're opening yourself up to legal hilarity (it's not cost effective to pursue individual cheaters beyond terminating their accounts generally, but then again, bot makers have been sued) - the reason this is a thing is that you're ruining the service for others. Oh and let's not forget, if people lose more than just the satisfaction of winning when someone steals their win with cheats I'd say they also have issues they should deal with. Please don't presume to tell other people what they should and should not find important. And if cybersecurity people can't learn without ruining other people's limited downtime, perhaps we need less cybersecurity people.
    - pwinnski 8y ago
      I propose that people who take video games so seriously that they're willing to cause real-world lasting harm to someone over them should themselves be prevented from participating in real-world jobs or travel until they've gone through "proportionality training." Or alternatively, that they be forced to get a face tattoo that reads, "The punishment should fit the crime." Or maybe that's ridiculous and extreme, just like lasting real-world consequences for online cheaters.
andrewmd5 8y ago
In the original blog, we also mentioned they should be proactive in actually having the fake videos removed from YouTube to ensure people couldn't self-pwn. While some may always ignore the warnings, there is never any harm in educating users because it could have positive effects in other games as well. Disclaimer: I wrote the original blog https://blog.rainway.io/how-we-discovered-a-virus-infecting-tens-of-thousands-of-fortnite-players-e5dd6fe1ff55 https://blog.rainway.io/how-we-discovered-a-virus-infecting-...

jtokoph 8y ago

My problem with this statement from the article is that this kind of warning from a gaming company will be ignored by players. Players will just rationalize it as "they are giving a BS warning because they don't want me to cheat".

GrumpyNl 8y ago
Reset his player stats and he will get the message.
- bovermyer 8y ago
  That's not enough. Cheaters should be publicly outed in a way that significantly harms their lives and discourages others from following a similar path. Not actual violence, mind you. Something like making it more difficult to get a job, or book a plane ticket, or similar.
  - cuckcuckspruce 8y ago
    Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly and give you a chance to clarify if I am misunderstanding (instead of immediately assuming the least charitable interpretation). Are you suggesting that cheaters in video games (not played in a competition for money, just playing casually) should suffer career, travel, and social consequences in the real world away from the game?
    - ygaf 8y ago
      Well, online recreation is as real as online discussion. There's people on the other end etc. On the other hand, if a kid spoils a game in a real-world playground, we don't give criminal records for that. On the other other hand, a game company is being harmed when you spoil their games.
    - bovermyer 8y ago
      Yes, that is what I'm suggesting. Primarily as a deterrent, rather than a punishment. And the usual stipulations about minors being treated differently than adults apply.
    - Karunamon 8y ago
      Why should they not? Should antisocial and deceptive behavior like this be flatly ignored “because it’s just a game”?
      - Avamander 8y ago
        Cheating in a game should always and only be dealt with by the game company itself. Having some real-world consequences what is quite literally meaningless is absurd the very least. Following that train of thought, should we start punishing people who cuss behind their consoles, PCs or phones? That's also "bad" and "not conducive to the society". Oh and let's not forget, if people lose more than just the satisfaction of winning when someone steals their win with cheats I'd say they also have issues they should deal with. In addition to that cheating in games has been a common first step towards a good career in the field of cybersecurity, if they'd been punished irl for cheating I'm quite certain they wouldn't be working in that field - do we really want to go on figuratively or literally slapping children for what really are just minor deviations from the regular? Your train of thought is similar to those who think zero-tolerance policies are a good idea - punishment on it's own never is.
        Karunamon 8y ago
        >Having some real-world consequences what is quite literally meaningless is absurd the very least. "Quite literally meaningless" is a massive stretch. At the very least, you're opening yourself up to legal hilarity (it's not cost effective to pursue individual cheaters beyond terminating their accounts generally, but then again, bot makers have been sued) - the reason this is a thing is that you're ruining the service for others. Oh and let's not forget, if people lose more than just the satisfaction of winning when someone steals their win with cheats I'd say they also have issues they should deal with. Please don't presume to tell other people what they should and should not find important. And if cybersecurity people can't learn without ruining other people's limited downtime, perhaps we need less cybersecurity people.
  - pwinnski 8y ago
    I propose that people who take video games so seriously that they're willing to cause real-world lasting harm to someone over them should themselves be prevented from participating in real-world jobs or travel until they've gone through "proportionality training." Or alternatively, that they be forced to get a face tattoo that reads, "The punishment should fit the crime." Or maybe that's ridiculous and extreme, just like lasting real-world consequences for online cheaters.

andrewmd5 8y ago

In the original blog, we also mentioned they should be proactive in actually having the fake videos removed from YouTube to ensure people couldn't self-pwn. While some may always ignore the warnings, there is never any harm in educating users because it could have positive effects in other games as well. Disclaimer: I wrote the original blog https://blog.rainway.io/how-we-discovered-a-virus-infecting-tens-of-thousands-of-fortnite-players-e5dd6fe1ff55 https://blog.rainway.io/how-we-discovered-a-virus-infecting-...