4 ms·

>have to wait several weeks A BBC article said it could be months, much less weeks. It's the beginning of the rainy season. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asi

by cr1895 8y ago

>have to wait several weeks A BBC article said it could be months, much less weeks. It's the beginning of the rainy season. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44692813 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44692813

jaggederest 8y ago
It's interesting, I wonder what the pros and cons are for drilling to retrieve them or send supplies. In the mine collapse situations that I'm aware of, there was already infrastructure on hand for heavy equipment and drilling. I have to imagine that the dangers of cave diving are multiplicative - you don't get enough skill-based improvement from any given trip into/out to make repeated trips a safe option.
- hvidgaard 8y ago
  I'm sure I don't understand the scale of this. I would however think that you can bring huge industrial pumps and do some plumbing to a suitable place to dump the water and turn them on. Holland once send 7 million ton a day of pumping capacity to England to help them out. Could that not make a serious impact on the water levels in the cave?
  - cr1895 8y ago
    My suspicion is that it isn't so much pumping capacity that's the issue but complexity.
  - bradstewart 8y ago
    Industrial scale pumps certainly exist, but they aren't exactly small and easily portable. I'm not familiar with the one Holland sent England, but I suspect it was pre-assembled on a ship? The highest capacity pumps in New Orleans can move roughly 10,000 gallons a second, but they require a supply "hose" that's ~8-10 feet in diameter to reach that volume. You'd need to get an enormous hose to a low point of the cave system, which may not be near the entrance. Then there's the question of what to do with the water you pump out. Maybe there's a river nearby that can absorb it? It is doable, but it's neither simple, not particularly quick.
  - grkvlt 8y ago
    Also, the pumps have to be at the lowest point, pushing the water up - a siphon has a maximum height that a vacuum can draw water up of around 10m.[0] You can't just stick the pump at the entrance and then shove a pipe hundreds of meters down the cave system, you need to take the pump down there and run the hose back to the outside. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon
    - hvidgaard 8y ago
      I did not think of that.
- cm2187 8y ago
  Stupid question. If you manage to drill down to the cave, don't you pierce the air bubble that prevents the water from rising and flooding the cave?
  - JshWright 8y ago
    Caves are quite permeable. It's not air pressure holding back the water, it's just a matter of how much water there is (the cave goes into the side of a mountain, it doesn't just go down into the ground).
- wlll 8y ago
  One more benefit they had with the mine was that they knew where it was and had it mapped. As far as I know no-one knows where to drill above ground to get to the chamber.
  - jaggederest 8y ago
    Ah, that's a subtle but in retrospect obvious consideration. Fascinating stuff to think about.

by cr1895 8y ago

jaggederest 8y ago

It's interesting, I wonder what the pros and cons are for drilling to retrieve them or send supplies. In the mine collapse situations that I'm aware of, there was already infrastructure on hand for heavy equipment and drilling. I have to imagine that the dangers of cave diving are multiplicative - you don't get enough skill-based improvement from any given trip into/out to make repeated trips a safe option.

hvidgaard 8y ago
I'm sure I don't understand the scale of this. I would however think that you can bring huge industrial pumps and do some plumbing to a suitable place to dump the water and turn them on. Holland once send 7 million ton a day of pumping capacity to England to help them out. Could that not make a serious impact on the water levels in the cave?
- cr1895 8y ago
  My suspicion is that it isn't so much pumping capacity that's the issue but complexity.
- bradstewart 8y ago
  Industrial scale pumps certainly exist, but they aren't exactly small and easily portable. I'm not familiar with the one Holland sent England, but I suspect it was pre-assembled on a ship? The highest capacity pumps in New Orleans can move roughly 10,000 gallons a second, but they require a supply "hose" that's ~8-10 feet in diameter to reach that volume. You'd need to get an enormous hose to a low point of the cave system, which may not be near the entrance. Then there's the question of what to do with the water you pump out. Maybe there's a river nearby that can absorb it? It is doable, but it's neither simple, not particularly quick.
- grkvlt 8y ago
  Also, the pumps have to be at the lowest point, pushing the water up - a siphon has a maximum height that a vacuum can draw water up of around 10m.[0] You can't just stick the pump at the entrance and then shove a pipe hundreds of meters down the cave system, you need to take the pump down there and run the hose back to the outside. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon
  - hvidgaard 8y ago
    I did not think of that.
cm2187 8y ago
Stupid question. If you manage to drill down to the cave, don't you pierce the air bubble that prevents the water from rising and flooding the cave?
- JshWright 8y ago
  Caves are quite permeable. It's not air pressure holding back the water, it's just a matter of how much water there is (the cave goes into the side of a mountain, it doesn't just go down into the ground).
wlll 8y ago
One more benefit they had with the mine was that they knew where it was and had it mapped. As far as I know no-one knows where to drill above ground to get to the chamber.
- jaggederest 8y ago
  Ah, that's a subtle but in retrospect obvious consideration. Fascinating stuff to think about.