4 ms·

Why are they unfair? I've heard the old saw about the 1980s SATs asking some analogy with a regatta:yacht, but what bias has been uncovered lately? And why is

Why are they unfair? I've heard the old saw about the 1980s SATs asking some analogy with a regatta:yacht, but what bias has been uncovered lately? And why is this bias mostly helping Asians, a minority group, who more likely to be learning English as a second language?

iosDrone 8y ago
I was under the impression that the test-makers have scrupulously avoided culturally-biased questions for decades, and yet left-leaning people casually continue tossing it around as part of their war on merit.
- icelancer 8y ago
  I avoid eating too many potato chips and I still overconsume them. Just because you know you have the bias doesn't mean you defeat it 100% of the time. I agree that the effect is small if anything in today's society, however.
  - iosDrone 8y ago
    Provide some recent examples of bias on tests.
Fomite 8y ago
There are a number of just-so stories you can make about them being either unfair or fair - but the education field doesn't consider this a settled question, and unless you're looking at the data in a systematic fashion with a clearly defined outcome and access to lots of control variables, you can't actually be sure the test yields the "best" students. And indeed, the definition of "best" in this context is circular. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you can't be certain you're right.
- mrchicity 8y ago
  Sure but you're fighting a strawman here. Nobody believes standardized tests are perfect or 100% accurate at determining ex post performance. We all know people who score well but lack discipline. People who support quotas don't merely believe tests are flawed, but believe they are flawed in extremely biased ways that need outside correction. On most of these tests, you have to solve math or logic problems, or read passages and synthesize information. It's hard to imagine someone could do exceptionally well answering those questions quickly & accurately and not perform in a classroom, or be unable to do those tasks yet excel academically.
  - Fomite 8y ago
    My statement doesn't argue against "this test is perfect" but rather a much laxer statement that they're "Race blind and fair" being axiomatically true. It's entirely possible to have the latter be true without the former. As for your "It's hard to imagine..." in my career teaching I've met both phenotypes.

iosDrone 8y ago

I was under the impression that the test-makers have scrupulously avoided culturally-biased questions for decades, and yet left-leaning people casually continue tossing it around as part of their war on merit.

icelancer 8y ago
I avoid eating too many potato chips and I still overconsume them. Just because you know you have the bias doesn't mean you defeat it 100% of the time. I agree that the effect is small if anything in today's society, however.
- iosDrone 8y ago
  Provide some recent examples of bias on tests.

Fomite 8y ago

There are a number of just-so stories you can make about them being either unfair or fair - but the education field doesn't consider this a settled question, and unless you're looking at the data in a systematic fashion with a clearly defined outcome and access to lots of control variables, you can't actually be sure the test yields the "best" students. And indeed, the definition of "best" in this context is circular. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you can't be certain you're right.

mrchicity 8y ago
Sure but you're fighting a strawman here. Nobody believes standardized tests are perfect or 100% accurate at determining ex post performance. We all know people who score well but lack discipline. People who support quotas don't merely believe tests are flawed, but believe they are flawed in extremely biased ways that need outside correction. On most of these tests, you have to solve math or logic problems, or read passages and synthesize information. It's hard to imagine someone could do exceptionally well answering those questions quickly & accurately and not perform in a classroom, or be unable to do those tasks yet excel academically.
- Fomite 8y ago
  My statement doesn't argue against "this test is perfect" but rather a much laxer statement that they're "Race blind and fair" being axiomatically true. It's entirely possible to have the latter be true without the former. As for your "It's hard to imagine..." in my career teaching I've met both phenotypes.