6 ms·

I do feel vastly more productive with my life without Reddit. Conversations on HN - I feel an odd kind of inclusion I never felt on Reddit, or many other places

I do feel vastly more productive with my life without Reddit. Conversations on HN - I feel an odd kind of inclusion I never felt on Reddit, or many other places in real life, internet. More signal than noise, makes it easier for me to feel like I have focus. The design of HN also, I appreciate, seems more thought went into planning the vote system, different ways to think about communities, different values. Knowing only the individual can see their upvotes for an individual post makes the question - is there a difference between 30 upvotes and 2, if the rank of that post is 1? Which I find simply to be, intellectually resonant (or simulating) in the way Reddit, even Google - used to be. Those places have become so noisy, which is ironic, but that's the problem with success. The problem of finding a metric to measure the thing against.

nunez 8y ago
It's possible to de-noise Reddit if you're picky about your subscriptions and avoid /r/all. Reddit is actually quite useful for me because of that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- rainonmoon 8y ago
  Possible to an extent. I'm also picky about my subs and I find Reddit a lot better than its public perception would suggest, but some of my interests are still apparently impossible to indulge on Reddit without trading off between a frequently toxic community or dead subs. And I've seen the transition from latter to former happen too many times; alt subreddits like /r/Games used to be wonderful, but now tips into an /r/gaming sensibility more than I'd like. Don't get me wrong, this isn't always the case, but I think it's difficult for subreddits to adhere to community guidelines like HN contributors do because going from obscure to critical mass can happen so rapidly.
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
I think attributing the difference between HN and Reddit to design choices is inaccurate. The biggest difference is that HN has only a tiny fraction of the number of users that Reddit does. HN feels pretty similar to the way Reddit felt ten years ago when it was much less popular.
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  Eh, HN feels the same way HN felt ten years ago. I don't have the same feelings about Reddit. The only difference to me is there's actually some subtle sort of connection I feel here, that goes deeper than the number of upvotes. Maybe I'm selecting my own bubble to exist in, but here I feel like I can at least have doubt over that. Design choices, hacker philosophy, actual usage demonstrated practically - that all lines up from my perspective.
  - natrik 8y ago
    https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths Interesting article I suggest reading. I agree with TheCoelacanth that an increase in users will lead to a decrease in quality.
    - s-shellfish 8y ago
      I've had some time to digest this article, so here are my thoughts on it. There are always going to be lots of people on the internet, lots of voices, hence, ranking algorithms. But I've been trying to find a place where the ranking algorithm doesn't get so much in the way of having a conversation. This is how I grew up watching my father interact on Usenet, and my father as a consequence had very interesting, philosophical conversations with me. So I see these places as places that are intrinsically valuable to continuing dialogue and personal identity. There's a lot of noise out there and I'd imagine it's no different than any other social sphere. This article is very cynical and very "I'm in the in group, I'm more smarter, I'm more analytical, I 'get it' - not you" which doesn't have to be the way people see it. That's a divisive mentality, and nothing good grows from communities that attack it's own members, predicated on the belief that that's a necessary behavioral function of the community in order to keep the community 'pure'. Hacker News, at least from my perspective, is built with a design philosophy that is 'aware' of it's value system. The mere fact that you can scroll through all the comments in one list, this is the hacker mentality. It keeps information opened in various ways to be examined by the user, and that's what hackers do. They say "look, isn't this neat? do you want to see how neat it is the way I do" - and then they give you the thing to tinker with, and let you tinker with it. There's no heavy opinion involved, there's no extreme stratification between paradigms and people, there's no need to completely close yourself off from thinking about things differently, because you just move on from one thing to tinker with, and then you move on to the next when you want to learn more. Articles do get posted that are "Do this, NOT that!" but there's typically a dialogue that goes beyond that and is connective, rather than cyclical in a fundamentally socially disconnected way. Honestly if people don't see themselves in the format HN presents I think they will get bored. I'd rather bore people with technical specs than adopt sociopathic traits and adhere to ideas like 'it's okay to be evil if that's what they are going to do'. There's stuff that becomes cyclical and there's stuff that cuts the problem off at the head. It's easy to get in a routine where one sees that pattern everywhere automatically. That's an artifact of the past. But if you set yourself on auto-pilot, eventually you set yourself up for engaging in 'future prediction'. And you might find yourself treating others in a particular way, that is completely disengaged from the actual reality of reality - each conversation. The map is not the territory, and so on.

nunez 8y ago

It's possible to de-noise Reddit if you're picky about your subscriptions and avoid /r/all. Reddit is actually quite useful for me because of that.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
rainonmoon 8y ago
Possible to an extent. I'm also picky about my subs and I find Reddit a lot better than its public perception would suggest, but some of my interests are still apparently impossible to indulge on Reddit without trading off between a frequently toxic community or dead subs. And I've seen the transition from latter to former happen too many times; alt subreddits like /r/Games used to be wonderful, but now tips into an /r/gaming sensibility more than I'd like. Don't get me wrong, this isn't always the case, but I think it's difficult for subreddits to adhere to community guidelines like HN contributors do because going from obscure to critical mass can happen so rapidly.

TheCoelacanth 8y ago

I think attributing the difference between HN and Reddit to design choices is inaccurate. The biggest difference is that HN has only a tiny fraction of the number of users that Reddit does. HN feels pretty similar to the way Reddit felt ten years ago when it was much less popular.

s-shellfish 8y ago
Eh, HN feels the same way HN felt ten years ago. I don't have the same feelings about Reddit. The only difference to me is there's actually some subtle sort of connection I feel here, that goes deeper than the number of upvotes. Maybe I'm selecting my own bubble to exist in, but here I feel like I can at least have doubt over that. Design choices, hacker philosophy, actual usage demonstrated practically - that all lines up from my perspective.
- natrik 8y ago
  https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths Interesting article I suggest reading. I agree with TheCoelacanth that an increase in users will lead to a decrease in quality.
  - s-shellfish 8y ago
    I've had some time to digest this article, so here are my thoughts on it. There are always going to be lots of people on the internet, lots of voices, hence, ranking algorithms. But I've been trying to find a place where the ranking algorithm doesn't get so much in the way of having a conversation. This is how I grew up watching my father interact on Usenet, and my father as a consequence had very interesting, philosophical conversations with me. So I see these places as places that are intrinsically valuable to continuing dialogue and personal identity. There's a lot of noise out there and I'd imagine it's no different than any other social sphere. This article is very cynical and very "I'm in the in group, I'm more smarter, I'm more analytical, I 'get it' - not you" which doesn't have to be the way people see it. That's a divisive mentality, and nothing good grows from communities that attack it's own members, predicated on the belief that that's a necessary behavioral function of the community in order to keep the community 'pure'. Hacker News, at least from my perspective, is built with a design philosophy that is 'aware' of it's value system. The mere fact that you can scroll through all the comments in one list, this is the hacker mentality. It keeps information opened in various ways to be examined by the user, and that's what hackers do. They say "look, isn't this neat? do you want to see how neat it is the way I do" - and then they give you the thing to tinker with, and let you tinker with it. There's no heavy opinion involved, there's no extreme stratification between paradigms and people, there's no need to completely close yourself off from thinking about things differently, because you just move on from one thing to tinker with, and then you move on to the next when you want to learn more. Articles do get posted that are "Do this, NOT that!" but there's typically a dialogue that goes beyond that and is connective, rather than cyclical in a fundamentally socially disconnected way. Honestly if people don't see themselves in the format HN presents I think they will get bored. I'd rather bore people with technical specs than adopt sociopathic traits and adhere to ideas like 'it's okay to be evil if that's what they are going to do'. There's stuff that becomes cyclical and there's stuff that cuts the problem off at the head. It's easy to get in a routine where one sees that pattern everywhere automatically. That's an artifact of the past. But if you set yourself on auto-pilot, eventually you set yourself up for engaging in 'future prediction'. And you might find yourself treating others in a particular way, that is completely disengaged from the actual reality of reality - each conversation. The map is not the territory, and so on.