4 ms·

What? It's like a conscious strategy on the part of homeless people? That would be cool. No, I really just think that people should stop overthinking problems

What? It's like a conscious strategy on the part of homeless people? That would be cool. No, I really just think that people should stop overthinking problems like this. You don't need to go around asking everybody's life story to work out that homelessness is tightly coupled with rent prices. Fix one, you fix the other. Or, if you think that's too expensive or onerous, own it. Accept that you're basically OK with other people being homeless. Everything else is just crocodile tears.

ralusek 8y ago
My first question is, which I think you missed, is why do they need to be given housing in the most expensive city in the world? There is a lot of space in this country. My second question is, how exactly do you propose rent be lowered? Do you just think that rent is made up on the spot by evil rich white people, and we should have the government force them to charge less? The reason rent is so high in the first place is largely to do with government restrictions on new developments...Rent is also high here because there is a large concentration of high paying work in the area. Are these high earning people going to be allowed to benefit from your proposed arbitrary lowering of rent, so that we only disproportionately punish the wealthy landlords but not the wealthy tech workers? If not, how many tech workers would you like to displace to make room for homeless residents, and how do you determine which? I feel foolish for not realizing how simple of a solution it was that you were proposing, but not all of us operate in the intellectual 4th dimension.
- pasabagi 8y ago
  Look, don't believe me. Just look at the history of public housing. It's expensive. It works. People like to pretend there's a lot of complexity to issues like these because they couldn't really care less about homeless people, and they'd rather not spend the money to give them homes. Talking about complex social issues is a great way to come across as both clever and caring. Paying more taxes, however, is a pain in the ass.
  - DougN7 8y ago
    Naive, but honest quesrion: why don’t homeless move to where housing costs less? That’s what I do if I can’t afford something: I find an alternative. It seems to me something else is going on that pulls homeless people into San Francisco. But I readily admit I don’t understand it all very well.
    - pasabagi 8y ago
      I think generally speaking, lowering housing costs isn't to allow a homeless person to save up for a deposit and rent an apartment. It's to increase the likelyhood that the sibling they always got along with will have a spare room, or to increase the buffer between losing a job and being on the streets, or to make it so the old friend doesn't mind it that much that somebody is sleeping in their spare room, since they have a spare room. On the individual level, I expect the reason why people stay is that being homeless makes you very dependent on local knowledge and social network. Knowing what bins contain food, where is good shelter, which police officers are dangerous, and so on - is very important. If you move city, you're not suddenly going to have the kind of money to pay a deposit. You'll just be homeless in a place you don't know. That, and a lot of homeless people have jobs.
- eldavido 8y ago
  Somewhat cynical but true answer: Because practicality is not a priority with SF politics. You can understand quite a lot about this place if you really internalize that realization.
- sfrancisco 8y ago
  Brilliant point. Homeless people don't care where they live. Raise awareness at a national governmental level. Remove the homeless to mental hospitals built for the purpose in a remote area. Many businesses that employed 100's of people have relocated to the midwest. Other businesses from the midwest have opened manufacturing facilities in SF for the cheap Asian labor. Pres. Trump is rumored to want to move 50,000 undocumented immigrants to Concord, a suburban sanctuary city near SF where there already is a burden of crime gangs made up of teenage immigrants, an excessive population of welfare recipient residents and a drug problem and housing shortage and excessive rate of teen pregnancy.
eldavido 8y ago
I actually don't think it is. A lot of SF's homeless population comes here from other places on trains or buses because the city has a reputation for tolerance and supportive social services. Some cities/states even bus people here. I think the root problem is that SF is carrying too much of the load for other places who won't take up the problem themselves. Every place is going to have some level of drug use or social problems. But it's not productive or responsible for everyone else to just dump it all on the SF taxpayers. A lesser problem is the populace's unwillingness to hold the homeless to any reasonable standard of behavior. I'm sorry, I know the homeless have it hard, but there are certain global norms of civilized behavior I consider inviolate, like, don't defecate in public, or don't drop used syringes on the ground, where people will step on them. These things happen here every day and the political climate is such that it's taboo to ask for law enforcement to get involved.
- convolvatron 8y ago
  i don't think its taboo, its just that the bar keeps getting higher and higher for law enforcement to even notice. it used to be that if a pile of drunks had a loud party outside my house at 3am, I could call the cops and they would send someone to break it up. or if someone started living outside by business, screaming at passersby and making a huge biohazard mess I could call them and they would move them along. now they want to know how big the encampment is, if it gets big enough they will break it up after a few weeks. otherwise I get the feeling they just put you on a list of whiners to ignore. anyways - you stop calling. even if the rent weren't so insane I would want to leave just because of the sheer misery involved for everyone.
  - eldavido 8y ago
    I live in Oakland Chinatown. Too many car break-ins on the back side of Potrero Hill eventually got me down. I'm really thinking about leaving. Not, as perhaps the other 95% of people do, for economic reasons, but just because I'm tired of how dysfunctional SF is. We pay through the nose in taxes and get what, a disgusting, dirty city, with barely-functional transit, do-nothing law enforcement, totally unaffordable housing, and insane traffic. It really does get under your skin after a while. I'm optimistic with London Breed that we'll finally get some tech/lawyer/finance/other working professional-driven emphasis on accountability and RESULTS from the city government. Less grandstanding and speeches, more numbers, data, better schools, functioning transit, and cleanliness.

ralusek 8y ago

My first question is, which I think you missed, is why do they need to be given housing in the most expensive city in the world? There is a lot of space in this country. My second question is, how exactly do you propose rent be lowered? Do you just think that rent is made up on the spot by evil rich white people, and we should have the government force them to charge less? The reason rent is so high in the first place is largely to do with government restrictions on new developments...Rent is also high here because there is a large concentration of high paying work in the area. Are these high earning people going to be allowed to benefit from your proposed arbitrary lowering of rent, so that we only disproportionately punish the wealthy landlords but not the wealthy tech workers? If not, how many tech workers would you like to displace to make room for homeless residents, and how do you determine which? I feel foolish for not realizing how simple of a solution it was that you were proposing, but not all of us operate in the intellectual 4th dimension.

pasabagi 8y ago
Look, don't believe me. Just look at the history of public housing. It's expensive. It works. People like to pretend there's a lot of complexity to issues like these because they couldn't really care less about homeless people, and they'd rather not spend the money to give them homes. Talking about complex social issues is a great way to come across as both clever and caring. Paying more taxes, however, is a pain in the ass.
- DougN7 8y ago
  Naive, but honest quesrion: why don’t homeless move to where housing costs less? That’s what I do if I can’t afford something: I find an alternative. It seems to me something else is going on that pulls homeless people into San Francisco. But I readily admit I don’t understand it all very well.
  - pasabagi 8y ago
    I think generally speaking, lowering housing costs isn't to allow a homeless person to save up for a deposit and rent an apartment. It's to increase the likelyhood that the sibling they always got along with will have a spare room, or to increase the buffer between losing a job and being on the streets, or to make it so the old friend doesn't mind it that much that somebody is sleeping in their spare room, since they have a spare room. On the individual level, I expect the reason why people stay is that being homeless makes you very dependent on local knowledge and social network. Knowing what bins contain food, where is good shelter, which police officers are dangerous, and so on - is very important. If you move city, you're not suddenly going to have the kind of money to pay a deposit. You'll just be homeless in a place you don't know. That, and a lot of homeless people have jobs.
eldavido 8y ago
Somewhat cynical but true answer: Because practicality is not a priority with SF politics. You can understand quite a lot about this place if you really internalize that realization.
sfrancisco 8y ago
Brilliant point. Homeless people don't care where they live. Raise awareness at a national governmental level. Remove the homeless to mental hospitals built for the purpose in a remote area. Many businesses that employed 100's of people have relocated to the midwest. Other businesses from the midwest have opened manufacturing facilities in SF for the cheap Asian labor. Pres. Trump is rumored to want to move 50,000 undocumented immigrants to Concord, a suburban sanctuary city near SF where there already is a burden of crime gangs made up of teenage immigrants, an excessive population of welfare recipient residents and a drug problem and housing shortage and excessive rate of teen pregnancy.

eldavido 8y ago

I actually don't think it is. A lot of SF's homeless population comes here from other places on trains or buses because the city has a reputation for tolerance and supportive social services. Some cities/states even bus people here. I think the root problem is that SF is carrying too much of the load for other places who won't take up the problem themselves. Every place is going to have some level of drug use or social problems. But it's not productive or responsible for everyone else to just dump it all on the SF taxpayers. A lesser problem is the populace's unwillingness to hold the homeless to any reasonable standard of behavior. I'm sorry, I know the homeless have it hard, but there are certain global norms of civilized behavior I consider inviolate, like, don't defecate in public, or don't drop used syringes on the ground, where people will step on them. These things happen here every day and the political climate is such that it's taboo to ask for law enforcement to get involved.

convolvatron 8y ago
i don't think its taboo, its just that the bar keeps getting higher and higher for law enforcement to even notice. it used to be that if a pile of drunks had a loud party outside my house at 3am, I could call the cops and they would send someone to break it up. or if someone started living outside by business, screaming at passersby and making a huge biohazard mess I could call them and they would move them along. now they want to know how big the encampment is, if it gets big enough they will break it up after a few weeks. otherwise I get the feeling they just put you on a list of whiners to ignore. anyways - you stop calling. even if the rent weren't so insane I would want to leave just because of the sheer misery involved for everyone.
- eldavido 8y ago
  I live in Oakland Chinatown. Too many car break-ins on the back side of Potrero Hill eventually got me down. I'm really thinking about leaving. Not, as perhaps the other 95% of people do, for economic reasons, but just because I'm tired of how dysfunctional SF is. We pay through the nose in taxes and get what, a disgusting, dirty city, with barely-functional transit, do-nothing law enforcement, totally unaffordable housing, and insane traffic. It really does get under your skin after a while. I'm optimistic with London Breed that we'll finally get some tech/lawyer/finance/other working professional-driven emphasis on accountability and RESULTS from the city government. Less grandstanding and speeches, more numbers, data, better schools, functioning transit, and cleanliness.