13 ms·

I don't agree. With permanent, known stations, a dock system can be more easily integrated into the existing public transportation network. This way the two sy

I don't agree. With permanent, known stations, a dock system can be more easily integrated into the existing public transportation network. This way the two systems can work together, and make the transportation of the region more efficient in general. These bike share startups should honestly all be to some degree folded into the public transportation network in general. It should be a mid to long term goal for buses, bike share and metro to be able to use the same public transport metro card. We've already seen many examples of this of dockless systems being a nuisance to businesses, local residents, and city governments. This is the sort of public service that doesn't make a lot of sense to be handled privately IMO.

entee 8y ago
You can already use a clipper card to unlock a gobike in SF. It's how I do it all the time, and it's incredibly convenient. If only they had a station essentially every block or every other block; the one by my house is frequently empty.
majormajor 8y ago
"Point to point" is a huge part of the appeal of cars over the existing public transportation network. We dedicate a ton of space to enabling point to point for cars, and barely any for bike docks and the like. Dockless scooters are the most effective thing I've seen yet - in very limited areas, so far - at starting to combat the limitations of the public transit network compared to the road/sidewalk/parking lot network. Bikes are too big to work well in this way, but scooters have done well.
- karthikb 8y ago
  And yet in a congested city, the closest car parking may be 2-3 blocks. Not a huge advantage over bike docks.
  - majormajor 8y ago
    Two to three blocks is much less than the amount of walking I would have to do as part of a typical within-3-mile local trip using either local bike-sharing bikes or public transportation. That would be 6-10+ blocks of walking, and a transfer or two (in the case of bus or rail). So I'll drive or lyft, because that's a pretty big convenience/flexibility advantage, especially if I'm making multiple stops. But Birds are increasingly tempting because I usually see one within one to two blocks of my apartment.
stevekemp 8y ago
> This way the two systems can work together That's the way it works in Helsinki. In the summer docks appear, stocked with bicycles. If you look on the local transport-company website you can see a realtime map of the trams, busses, and the number of bikes available at each dock-site. For example on the following map you can see the number of bikes available near my house: https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404 https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404 It costs €25/month to be a member, and then you can ride any bike in the city for free for 30 minutes. After that you pay, or park your bike and take another. I've never used them, because I grew up cycling on the other side of the road and I'm a little too nerveous to cycle here, but I suspect that fear will fade in a few more years.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  > the other side of the road That seems rather limiting. Here in Copenhagen, I don't know any GB/AU/NZ/etc people who can ride a bike but choose not to. I cycled from the airport to the city centre on my first day here... It perhaps helps that I'm from SE England, so about once a year my dad would drive the car to (or through) France without a fuss. Helsinki looks very green, I must plan a visit.
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    Helsinki is very green in the summer! I'm exaggerating a little, but I know that the few times I've borrowed a bike from a friend to ride along a cycle-path my instictive reaction is always to turn the wrong way when going round corners/junctions/cross-roads. Throw cars, trams, and buses into the mix? Well I think I'd have to be concentrating more than usual which makes me a little less keen. No doubt I'll relax over time.
devy 8y ago
Yup, I agree with docked systems for bike sharing. Mobike (8 million bikes, founded 2015 [1]) and Ofo (3 million bikes, founded 2014 [2]) are the world's top two bike sharing operators. They also happen to be using dockless systems for their bikes, that have proven dockless systems have created nightmares in operation and maintenance cost, as well as the known oversupply and abandonment problems[3], let alone the uphill battle clashing with local governments and business in bike parking and storage. Dockless system is convenient from individual bike rider's perspective but it's more costly to operator in terms of operation(collection, redistribution etc.) and maintenance (bikes are more sophisticated due to the requirement of tracking and individually connected for rental transaction operation.) There is a analogy to the dock system vs. dockless system debate: which ways of transportation is sustainable and logical? Private automobiles or public transit? From the micro-level, private automobiles provides convenience to individual drivers but creates much bigger problems in the macro-level, congestion, efficiency(due to vacant seats), parking etc.; whereas, public transit is always better in terms of transportation efficiency (higher number of multi-occupancy, much easier to scale up ridership, the whole point of sharing economy), easier to manage from traffic flow perspective and much cheaper in terms of operating cost both from operator's perspective and rider's perspective. [1]: https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/mobike-statistics-facts/ https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/mobike-statistics-fa... [2]: https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/ofo-statistics/ https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/ofo-statistics/ [3]: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversupply-in-china-huge-piles-of-abandoned-and-broken-bicycles/556268/ https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversup...
Paul-ish 8y ago
What your describing sounds a lot like Zagster on my campus. From what I understand, they work with universities, corporations, and cities to build out their bike sharing network. It seems like Zagster is trying to play the role of bike sharing contractor.

entee 8y ago

You can already use a clipper card to unlock a gobike in SF. It's how I do it all the time, and it's incredibly convenient. If only they had a station essentially every block or every other block; the one by my house is frequently empty.

majormajor 8y ago

"Point to point" is a huge part of the appeal of cars over the existing public transportation network. We dedicate a ton of space to enabling point to point for cars, and barely any for bike docks and the like. Dockless scooters are the most effective thing I've seen yet - in very limited areas, so far - at starting to combat the limitations of the public transit network compared to the road/sidewalk/parking lot network. Bikes are too big to work well in this way, but scooters have done well.

karthikb 8y ago
And yet in a congested city, the closest car parking may be 2-3 blocks. Not a huge advantage over bike docks.
- majormajor 8y ago
  Two to three blocks is much less than the amount of walking I would have to do as part of a typical within-3-mile local trip using either local bike-sharing bikes or public transportation. That would be 6-10+ blocks of walking, and a transfer or two (in the case of bus or rail). So I'll drive or lyft, because that's a pretty big convenience/flexibility advantage, especially if I'm making multiple stops. But Birds are increasingly tempting because I usually see one within one to two blocks of my apartment.

stevekemp 8y ago

> This way the two systems can work together That's the way it works in Helsinki. In the summer docks appear, stocked with bicycles. If you look on the local transport-company website you can see a realtime map of the trams, busses, and the number of bikes available at each dock-site. For example on the following map you can see the number of bikes available near my house: https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404 https://www.reittiopas.fi/pysakit/HSL:1160404 It costs €25/month to be a member, and then you can ride any bike in the city for free for 30 minutes. After that you pay, or park your bike and take another. I've never used them, because I grew up cycling on the other side of the road and I'm a little too nerveous to cycle here, but I suspect that fear will fade in a few more years.

Symbiote 8y ago
> the other side of the road That seems rather limiting. Here in Copenhagen, I don't know any GB/AU/NZ/etc people who can ride a bike but choose not to. I cycled from the airport to the city centre on my first day here... It perhaps helps that I'm from SE England, so about once a year my dad would drive the car to (or through) France without a fuss. Helsinki looks very green, I must plan a visit.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  Helsinki is very green in the summer! I'm exaggerating a little, but I know that the few times I've borrowed a bike from a friend to ride along a cycle-path my instictive reaction is always to turn the wrong way when going round corners/junctions/cross-roads. Throw cars, trams, and buses into the mix? Well I think I'd have to be concentrating more than usual which makes me a little less keen. No doubt I'll relax over time.

devy 8y ago

Yup, I agree with docked systems for bike sharing. Mobike (8 million bikes, founded 2015 [1]) and Ofo (3 million bikes, founded 2014 [2]) are the world's top two bike sharing operators. They also happen to be using dockless systems for their bikes, that have proven dockless systems have created nightmares in operation and maintenance cost, as well as the known oversupply and abandonment problems[3], let alone the uphill battle clashing with local governments and business in bike parking and storage. Dockless system is convenient from individual bike rider's perspective but it's more costly to operator in terms of operation(collection, redistribution etc.) and maintenance (bikes are more sophisticated due to the requirement of tracking and individually connected for rental transaction operation.) There is a analogy to the dock system vs. dockless system debate: which ways of transportation is sustainable and logical? Private automobiles or public transit? From the micro-level, private automobiles provides convenience to individual drivers but creates much bigger problems in the macro-level, congestion, efficiency(due to vacant seats), parking etc.; whereas, public transit is always better in terms of transportation efficiency (higher number of multi-occupancy, much easier to scale up ridership, the whole point of sharing economy), easier to manage from traffic flow perspective and much cheaper in terms of operating cost both from operator's perspective and rider's perspective. [1]: https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/mobike-statistics-facts/ https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/mobike-statistics-fa... [2]: https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/ofo-statistics/ https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/ofo-statistics/ [3]: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversupply-in-china-huge-piles-of-abandoned-and-broken-bicycles/556268/ https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversup...

Paul-ish 8y ago

What your describing sounds a lot like Zagster on my campus. From what I understand, they work with universities, corporations, and cities to build out their bike sharing network. It seems like Zagster is trying to play the role of bike sharing contractor.