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> Kind of my point really. Why does how LibreOffice is compiled matter to the end user who is installing LibreOffice? It doesn't, and so indeed most users like

> Kind of my point really. Why does how LibreOffice is compiled matter to the end user who is installing LibreOffice? It doesn't, and so indeed most users like the package manager because it makes installing software easier. > Most of what you're saying is agreeing that all the reasons I personally don't like package managers are indeed true, we just disagree about whether or not those are good things. I don't think they are. I suppose that's one way of looking at it, yes. But you must be a rather alienated individual: you can't use virtually any Linux distribution, nor most of the *BSDs, and macOS has an App Store so that's out the window too, ... > And that's the problem: The system is pushing the new paradigm. Package management will be the rule and simple application directories will be the outlier. That's not a convincing argument for me to use the system. No, I mean you could make "appimage" style HPKGs, that installed with no dependencies and no repositories. Would anyone use those when they can already do one-click-installs of any application they want? I dunno, probably not. I'm glad you think "simple" application directories are really that "simple." What happens when one library, used by 6 of your installed applications, has a security flaw? You need to update all 6. Or if you have a system package manager, you need to run one command and it will update the 1 package for you. > If I were going to do that, I'd just use Linux because it has much better hardware and software support. Well, the "copy directory to install" was never really the reason Haiku existed, and if you think in losing that we've lost some huge part of our identity ... I really think you're mistaken.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> I suppose that's one way of looking at it, yes. But you must be a rather alienated individual: you can't use virtually any Linux distribution, nor most of the *BSDs, and macOS has an App Store so that's out the window too, Yeah, so alienated over here with the 90% of desktop users not using one of those. Don't see why you're taking this so personally that you feel the need to resort to some kind of personal attack. > What happens when one library, used by 6 of your installed applications, has a security flaw? You need to update all 6. Yep. It's a tradeoff. I prefer the simplicity, flexibility, and non-conflicting nature of appdirs. > Well, the "copy directory to install" was never really the reason Haiku existed, and if you think in losing that we've lost some huge part of our identity ... I really think you're mistaken. As I understand it, Haiku wants to be a desktop OS. That's its identity. I think that package management has no place in a desktop OS, so when Haiku added one I lost interest. That's it really.
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  > Yeah, so alienated over here with the 90% of desktop users not using one of those. Don't see why you're taking this so personally that you feel the need to resort to some kind of personal attack. I'm sorry, I didn't intend it as an attack, just a remark that you seem to be asking for something that very few in the open source world are providing. Yes, 90% of desktop users use Windows. But Linux is not Windows, and neither is Haiku, and so I'm not sure why you're upset that we've decided to go a route more Linuxy than Windowsy here. And I also note that Windows has an app store now, and more and more apps are showing up on it. So there's that. > I prefer the simplicity, flexibility, and non-conflicting nature of appdirs. And as an OS developer and package maintainer, I prefer the tradeoff the other way. You are of course more than free to create AppImage-style HPKGs on your own. :) > I think that package management has no place in a desktop OS, so when Haiku added one I lost interest. Well, it seems most of the open source world disagrees with you very much, then.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > I'm sorry, I didn't intend it as an attack, just a remark that you seem to be asking for something that very few in the open source world are providing. Yes, this is a continual source of frustration for me. Every time someone starts a new desktop OS project they just keep making the same mistakes (at least I think they are mistakes) and we end up with what is essentially another Linux distro. > Yes, 90% of desktop users use Windows. But Linux is not Windows, and neither is Haiku, and so I'm not sure why you're upset that we've decided to go a route more Linuxy than Windowsy here. Because there are approximately 200 Linux distributions that already went that route and they're not particularly useful dekstop OSs either. Haiku already had an uphill battle in lack of software and hardware support, but the more it makes itself like a Linux distro the less reason I see to choose it over a Linux distro. > And as an OS developer and package maintainer, I prefer the tradeoff the other way. Yes, exactly. You like package management because it makes your life easier, not because it makes the system simpler, and not because it provides more flexibility for the user. > You are of course more than free to create AppImage-style HPKGs on your own. :) I could do that in Linux or Windows, why bother doing it for an OS with even less hardware and software support? If an OS wants me to use it over something else then I need compelling reasons. > Well, it seems most of the open source world disagrees with you very much, then. Perhaps that's part of the reason they have so few desktop users. I can only speak for myself here.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> I suppose that's one way of looking at it, yes. But you must be a rather alienated individual: you can't use virtually any Linux distribution, nor most of the *BSDs, and macOS has an App Store so that's out the window too, Yeah, so alienated over here with the 90% of desktop users not using one of those. Don't see why you're taking this so personally that you feel the need to resort to some kind of personal attack. > What happens when one library, used by 6 of your installed applications, has a security flaw? You need to update all 6. Yep. It's a tradeoff. I prefer the simplicity, flexibility, and non-conflicting nature of appdirs. > Well, the "copy directory to install" was never really the reason Haiku existed, and if you think in losing that we've lost some huge part of our identity ... I really think you're mistaken. As I understand it, Haiku wants to be a desktop OS. That's its identity. I think that package management has no place in a desktop OS, so when Haiku added one I lost interest. That's it really.

waddlesplash 8y ago
> Yeah, so alienated over here with the 90% of desktop users not using one of those. Don't see why you're taking this so personally that you feel the need to resort to some kind of personal attack. I'm sorry, I didn't intend it as an attack, just a remark that you seem to be asking for something that very few in the open source world are providing. Yes, 90% of desktop users use Windows. But Linux is not Windows, and neither is Haiku, and so I'm not sure why you're upset that we've decided to go a route more Linuxy than Windowsy here. And I also note that Windows has an app store now, and more and more apps are showing up on it. So there's that. > I prefer the simplicity, flexibility, and non-conflicting nature of appdirs. And as an OS developer and package maintainer, I prefer the tradeoff the other way. You are of course more than free to create AppImage-style HPKGs on your own. :) > I think that package management has no place in a desktop OS, so when Haiku added one I lost interest. Well, it seems most of the open source world disagrees with you very much, then.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > I'm sorry, I didn't intend it as an attack, just a remark that you seem to be asking for something that very few in the open source world are providing. Yes, this is a continual source of frustration for me. Every time someone starts a new desktop OS project they just keep making the same mistakes (at least I think they are mistakes) and we end up with what is essentially another Linux distro. > Yes, 90% of desktop users use Windows. But Linux is not Windows, and neither is Haiku, and so I'm not sure why you're upset that we've decided to go a route more Linuxy than Windowsy here. Because there are approximately 200 Linux distributions that already went that route and they're not particularly useful dekstop OSs either. Haiku already had an uphill battle in lack of software and hardware support, but the more it makes itself like a Linux distro the less reason I see to choose it over a Linux distro. > And as an OS developer and package maintainer, I prefer the tradeoff the other way. Yes, exactly. You like package management because it makes your life easier, not because it makes the system simpler, and not because it provides more flexibility for the user. > You are of course more than free to create AppImage-style HPKGs on your own. :) I could do that in Linux or Windows, why bother doing it for an OS with even less hardware and software support? If an OS wants me to use it over something else then I need compelling reasons. > Well, it seems most of the open source world disagrees with you very much, then. Perhaps that's part of the reason they have so few desktop users. I can only speak for myself here.