7 ms·

Yeah, it is. Grade inflation is a well known, documented phenomena. Unfortunately I have no time to link the papers on this subject, but if you search, they are

by krapht 8y ago

Yeah, it is. Grade inflation is a well known, documented phenomena. Unfortunately I have no time to link the papers on this subject, but if you search, they are there.

matte_black 8y ago
Have school grades ever deflated? Or undergone some sort of correction? No citation needed, anecdotes are fine.
- oconnor663 8y ago
  My grades underwent a correction or two back in the day :)
- hashkb 8y ago
  Yes. At my school we had a real curve. If we all got perfect scores, that's a C for everyone. (More often we all got 15s and they became C's). Teachers who gave too many A's would be benched. We laughed at Ivy League 4.0s which just require a phone call from a parent.
  - drewg123 8y ago
    MIT? My wife went there, and while most STEM grad schools understood that grades at MIT were not inflated, medical schools did not seem to care. One of her friends had to first get inflated grades doing a STEM masters degree before she could get into med school due to her uninflated MIT undergrad grades.
    - hashkb 8y ago
      GT. I heard you all got to play with kittens freshman year. In response, GT professors replaced 20% more lectures with exams.
      - lordCarbonFiber 8y ago
        Almost no one at GT does true curves anymore. Just like stack ranking, trying to implement true curves with a non random distribution is a fool's errand and poor knowledge of statistics.
      - mrexroad 8y ago
        To hell with Georgia!
  - joshvm 8y ago
    This is standard practice at a lot of universities. At my university results were scaled based on the class performance in that exam and the performance of everyone in other exams. So if you're all 4.0 students, but the exam is horrendous and everyone only gets 20%, you'll probably end up with a good grade still. I studied physics. It was possible to game the system to a certain extent. If you took the (subjectively) hardest modules like gauge theory, you could get a high grade even if you only answered half the paper. So if you were smart, but not top of your class, you'd be better off taking the hard subjects because every mark you got was effectively worth more. If you took the easy and popular modules, every mark would count and it might even be normalised down.
    - workinfunk 8y ago
      Of course this only works until everyone becomes wise to it. Then you're worse off where you started.
      - joshvm 8y ago
        That's true, but unlikely. These are not particularly large or popular courses (15/70 people was common). It's not a tactic that would work for everyone, but it would potentially useful if you're a good student, but at a borderline grade. The reason I liked it was because I hated having to cram for easy subjects because the class average would be so high. I would rather put the same amount of effort in to learn concepts (and have to remember less in the exam) than rote facts.
- rxhernandez 8y ago
  One of the Cal Polys has an engineering program which curves the average grade to a C+ which automatically disqualifies the average from many engineering jobs.
  - cobookman 8y ago
    That's similar to Georgia Tech. Undergrad Eng courses are curved to a C+. With the average GPA being a bit below a 3.0. We used to joke at all the pre med students as to why they chose Georgia Tech as just about every other school had gpa inflation. And grad schools don't take Tech's lower grades into account.
    - hashkb 8y ago
      Which was totally fair given how the HOPE scholarship works. Not that I am bitter.
      - amdsn 8y ago
        Except now STEM courses are weighted as of 2017 in all GA university system schools: Effective fall 2017, when calculating the HOPE and Zell Miller Scholarship postsecondary Grade Point Average (GPA), an additional weight of 0.5 will be added to grades of B, C, and D for approved degree level science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) courses I think it's good since it doesn't affect their Institute GPA but can help them keep the scholarship. I knew a lot of people who lost HOPE/Zell and the increased financial burden made keeping their grades up that much harder.
        hashkb 8y ago
        That's still stupid. The freshman writing courses at GT are harder than graduate CS at UGA or Valdosta. Edit: Valdosta doesn't offer graduate CS. But imagine that it did.
  - a_c_s 8y ago
    A curve distorts grades: they tell you how the person performed relative to their peers not relative to their mastery of the material.
- discreditable 8y ago
  At the high school I worked at some years ago we pushed the margins for letter grades up a little. For example, where a C used to be 70-80% it became 72-82%, up to A which is 93-100%. Whether or not that affected the overall GPA distribution I could not say.
  - 394549 8y ago
    > For example, where a C used to be 70-80% it became 72-82%, up to A which is 93-100% That sounds something like an older system. I don't remember it entirely, but IIRC, very early in my school career, an A was 93-100% and an F was anything less than 70%.
- camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
  Historically, I have no idea. Anecdotally, having recently graduated from a liberal arts school(BA CS & Math) I can say the trend seemed to differ wildly depending on the instructor and course. The CS and Stats professors had radically different expectations of what an, "A" performance in their classes was verses general professors. The tears of those students who had only ever gotten A's when they got a B- in Algorithms or Stat465... So much angst and hate over what should reflect an adequate grasp of the material. That said I feel like it's the responsibility of the institution to instill consistent criteria for evaluating performance. Having applied and been accepted to graduate school, I was nearly rejected for having earned C's in two of the hardest courses offered by the school. Turns out the same (tough) professors didn't care about that fact, admitting those of higher GPA's from easier majors no-questions-asked, subjecting me to the microscope. So their distress was qualified in the end. I ended up saying, "f this noise" and took a great job where I get paid to write HN comments on the toilet, btw. Hey, you asked for anecdotes.
noobiemcfoob 8y ago
Is it possible that grade inflation has grown in pace to the expanding web of knowledge?
- losteric 8y ago
  Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest contributor to higher grades are the book summary and answer-key sharing sites.
  - xstartup 8y ago
    Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. If the institutions have to stay relevant, they'll have to make sure the grades are correlated to successful people in some way even if it means handing out grade A to any student!
    - 394549 8y ago
      >> Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. > If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful business people then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. What you describe is grade inflation. Grades aren't meant to be predictors of career success, they're meant to be indicators of past academic performance. My understanding is that once upon a time, a "C" grade meant your work was average or typical, which was perfectly respectable. An "A" or "B" mean your academic work was above the norm or outstanding. People could get C's and go on to have successful, non-academic careers (such as in business) with little comment. With grade inflation, when "average" is an A or B, it's much harder to distinguish the truly academically talented based on their grades, since they're grouped into the same category as average performers.

by krapht 8y ago

Yeah, it is. Grade inflation is a well known, documented phenomena. Unfortunately I have no time to link the papers on this subject, but if you search, they are there.

matte_black 8y ago

Have school grades ever deflated? Or undergone some sort of correction? No citation needed, anecdotes are fine.

oconnor663 8y ago
My grades underwent a correction or two back in the day :)
hashkb 8y ago
Yes. At my school we had a real curve. If we all got perfect scores, that's a C for everyone. (More often we all got 15s and they became C's). Teachers who gave too many A's would be benched. We laughed at Ivy League 4.0s which just require a phone call from a parent.
- drewg123 8y ago
  MIT? My wife went there, and while most STEM grad schools understood that grades at MIT were not inflated, medical schools did not seem to care. One of her friends had to first get inflated grades doing a STEM masters degree before she could get into med school due to her uninflated MIT undergrad grades.
  - hashkb 8y ago
    GT. I heard you all got to play with kittens freshman year. In response, GT professors replaced 20% more lectures with exams.
    - lordCarbonFiber 8y ago
      Almost no one at GT does true curves anymore. Just like stack ranking, trying to implement true curves with a non random distribution is a fool's errand and poor knowledge of statistics.
    - mrexroad 8y ago
      To hell with Georgia!
- joshvm 8y ago
  This is standard practice at a lot of universities. At my university results were scaled based on the class performance in that exam and the performance of everyone in other exams. So if you're all 4.0 students, but the exam is horrendous and everyone only gets 20%, you'll probably end up with a good grade still. I studied physics. It was possible to game the system to a certain extent. If you took the (subjectively) hardest modules like gauge theory, you could get a high grade even if you only answered half the paper. So if you were smart, but not top of your class, you'd be better off taking the hard subjects because every mark you got was effectively worth more. If you took the easy and popular modules, every mark would count and it might even be normalised down.
  - workinfunk 8y ago
    Of course this only works until everyone becomes wise to it. Then you're worse off where you started.
    - joshvm 8y ago
      That's true, but unlikely. These are not particularly large or popular courses (15/70 people was common). It's not a tactic that would work for everyone, but it would potentially useful if you're a good student, but at a borderline grade. The reason I liked it was because I hated having to cram for easy subjects because the class average would be so high. I would rather put the same amount of effort in to learn concepts (and have to remember less in the exam) than rote facts.
rxhernandez 8y ago
One of the Cal Polys has an engineering program which curves the average grade to a C+ which automatically disqualifies the average from many engineering jobs.
- cobookman 8y ago
  That's similar to Georgia Tech. Undergrad Eng courses are curved to a C+. With the average GPA being a bit below a 3.0. We used to joke at all the pre med students as to why they chose Georgia Tech as just about every other school had gpa inflation. And grad schools don't take Tech's lower grades into account.
  - hashkb 8y ago
    Which was totally fair given how the HOPE scholarship works. Not that I am bitter.
    - amdsn 8y ago
      Except now STEM courses are weighted as of 2017 in all GA university system schools: Effective fall 2017, when calculating the HOPE and Zell Miller Scholarship postsecondary Grade Point Average (GPA), an additional weight of 0.5 will be added to grades of B, C, and D for approved degree level science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) courses I think it's good since it doesn't affect their Institute GPA but can help them keep the scholarship. I knew a lot of people who lost HOPE/Zell and the increased financial burden made keeping their grades up that much harder.
      - hashkb 8y ago
        That's still stupid. The freshman writing courses at GT are harder than graduate CS at UGA or Valdosta. Edit: Valdosta doesn't offer graduate CS. But imagine that it did.
- a_c_s 8y ago
  A curve distorts grades: they tell you how the person performed relative to their peers not relative to their mastery of the material.
discreditable 8y ago
At the high school I worked at some years ago we pushed the margins for letter grades up a little. For example, where a C used to be 70-80% it became 72-82%, up to A which is 93-100%. Whether or not that affected the overall GPA distribution I could not say.
- 394549 8y ago
  > For example, where a C used to be 70-80% it became 72-82%, up to A which is 93-100% That sounds something like an older system. I don't remember it entirely, but IIRC, very early in my school career, an A was 93-100% and an F was anything less than 70%.
camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
Historically, I have no idea. Anecdotally, having recently graduated from a liberal arts school(BA CS & Math) I can say the trend seemed to differ wildly depending on the instructor and course. The CS and Stats professors had radically different expectations of what an, "A" performance in their classes was verses general professors. The tears of those students who had only ever gotten A's when they got a B- in Algorithms or Stat465... So much angst and hate over what should reflect an adequate grasp of the material. That said I feel like it's the responsibility of the institution to instill consistent criteria for evaluating performance. Having applied and been accepted to graduate school, I was nearly rejected for having earned C's in two of the hardest courses offered by the school. Turns out the same (tough) professors didn't care about that fact, admitting those of higher GPA's from easier majors no-questions-asked, subjecting me to the microscope. So their distress was qualified in the end. I ended up saying, "f this noise" and took a great job where I get paid to write HN comments on the toilet, btw. Hey, you asked for anecdotes.

noobiemcfoob 8y ago

Is it possible that grade inflation has grown in pace to the expanding web of knowledge?

losteric 8y ago
Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest contributor to higher grades are the book summary and answer-key sharing sites.
- xstartup 8y ago
  Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. If the institutions have to stay relevant, they'll have to make sure the grades are correlated to successful people in some way even if it means handing out grade A to any student!
  - 394549 8y ago
    >> Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. > If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful business people then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. What you describe is grade inflation. Grades aren't meant to be predictors of career success, they're meant to be indicators of past academic performance. My understanding is that once upon a time, a "C" grade meant your work was average or typical, which was perfectly respectable. An "A" or "B" mean your academic work was above the norm or outstanding. People could get C's and go on to have successful, non-academic careers (such as in business) with little comment. With grade inflation, when "average" is an A or B, it's much harder to distinguish the truly academically talented based on their grades, since they're grouped into the same category as average performers.