> If freedom and democracy were universal values then they would have shown up in some of the earliest cultures ... Certainly there is plenty of writing throug

> If freedom and democracy were universal values then they would have shown up in some of the earliest cultures ... Certainly there is plenty of writing throughout recorded history in many cultures about freedom and oppression, and democracy as a form of government at least goes back to ancient Greece and Rome (a republic). We have no idea how often it was implemented on a small scale (a village, etc.), but I find it hard to believe that nobody thought of taking a vote until 1776. Implementing those things in government might have been difficult, but so was developing physics, literacy and the Internet. That doesn't mean people didn't want those things throughout history. > Universal values are closer to ... I don't think it's worth debating the meaning of 'universal'.