4 ms·

No names mentioned? Also why can not this company switch to tmsc or gf?

slivym 8y ago
They sell the full article which is why they aren't naming it in the public article. I suspect what they're saying is that the company has invested so heavily in getting to tapeout on Intel that it's too late to move their design to TSMC. To do that they would basically have to tape out again which would take the best part of a year even if they could get TSMC to agree to produce the chip, by which point they'd have missed the market. The fact that the article teases an industry going through change makes me think it's probably a company that produces things for 5G. My money would be on Nokia.
- dplgk 8y ago
  What is tape out?
  - urmish 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out When a chip design is stable enough for manufacturing them. But chips usually have post si bugs and so the tape out is usually a back and forth process depending on how complex thechip is and how competent the design team was.
  - PaulHoule 8y ago
    When the plans are ready to send to the foundry.
  - psds2 8y ago
    Tapeout refers to when the photomask is done, basically when you have completed the design, rendered it graphically and are ready to send to fabrication. tldr this article is basically saying the 10nm is so screwed up they can't just adjust a few things, they need to fix a lot and the more changes you start having to make the more verification that needs to be done before things are signed off and ready for tapeout.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
JPLeRouzic 8y ago
Maybe ARM ? : https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip
- bhouston 8y ago
  Isn't arm fabless? And doesn't all smartphones use arm but via Qualcomm, allwinner, Apple's ax, or Samsung?
  - JPLeRouzic 8y ago
    Look at the two links I provided. And ARM wants to provide IP compatible with 10 nm to compete with TSMC and GF: https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip
  - HelloNurse 8y ago
    There might be some ARM customer who selected Intel as a foundry for their ARM design; the question is how much ARM would have to invest on such a customer. I suppose the worst case would be an expensive R&D initiative (with ARM paying Intel for prototypes) about how to make ARM cores with Intel's 10nm process, with no usable result. Not likely to sink ARM.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Rolling things over in my head. Warning mere speculation. ARM doesn't sell silicon, they license IP. However might be they're licensing IP blocks. Essentially a tested CPU layout you can more or less paste into a design. Think Lego's.
- psds2 8y ago
  Doesn't Softbank own ARM now? I don't see ARM having any market cap of its own to qualify the statement "$20bn market cap company"
  - JPLeRouzic 8y ago
JPLeRouzic 8y ago
Because: "ARM, challenging Samsung, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) and GlobalFoundries in the mobile SoC fab space." https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/
cptskippy 8y ago
Spinning up a chip isn't as easy is uploading your Eagle CAD file to a Fab and punching in unit quantities. Each Fab's manufacturing process has certain design constrains that will most likely require some amount of custom design and layout. Certain designs might not even be possible on certain processes. They certainly can go to TMSC or GF with their designs but it will take time (months or years) to validate the designs, and money to make it happen. And this doesn't even take into account Fab capacities. TMSC and GF might be committed to other firms and not have capacity for this new work. The 5G rollout has already started and vendors should have been shipping their products by now. Not having anything for the first wave means you're going to lose most of the market.

They sell the full article which is why they aren't naming it in the public article. I suspect what they're saying is that the company has invested so heavily in getting to tapeout on Intel that it's too late to move their design to TSMC. To do that they would basically have to tape out again which would take the best part of a year even if they could get TSMC to agree to produce the chip, by which point they'd have missed the market. The fact that the article teases an industry going through change makes me think it's probably a company that produces things for 5G. My money would be on Nokia.

dplgk 8y ago
What is tape out?
- urmish 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out When a chip design is stable enough for manufacturing them. But chips usually have post si bugs and so the tape out is usually a back and forth process depending on how complex thechip is and how competent the design team was.
- PaulHoule 8y ago
  When the plans are ready to send to the foundry.
- psds2 8y ago
  Tapeout refers to when the photomask is done, basically when you have completed the design, rendered it graphically and are ready to send to fabrication. tldr this article is basically saying the 10nm is so screwed up they can't just adjust a few things, they need to fix a lot and the more changes you start having to make the more verification that needs to be done before things are signed off and ready for tapeout.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

JPLeRouzic 8y ago

Maybe ARM ? : https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip

bhouston 8y ago
Isn't arm fabless? And doesn't all smartphones use arm but via Qualcomm, allwinner, Apple's ax, or Samsung?
- JPLeRouzic 8y ago
  Look at the two links I provided. And ARM wants to provide IP compatible with 10 nm to compete with TSMC and GF: https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip https://www.arm.com/products/physical-ip
- HelloNurse 8y ago
  There might be some ARM customer who selected Intel as a foundry for their ARM design; the question is how much ARM would have to invest on such a customer. I suppose the worst case would be an expensive R&D initiative (with ARM paying Intel for prototypes) about how to make ARM cores with Intel's 10nm process, with no usable result. Not likely to sink ARM.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Rolling things over in my head. Warning mere speculation. ARM doesn't sell silicon, they license IP. However might be they're licensing IP blocks. Essentially a tested CPU layout you can more or less paste into a design. Think Lego's.
psds2 8y ago
Doesn't Softbank own ARM now? I don't see ARM having any market cap of its own to qualify the statement "$20bn market cap company"
- JPLeRouzic 8y ago

JPLeRouzic 8y ago

Because: "ARM, challenging Samsung, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) and GlobalFoundries in the mobile SoC fab space." https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/16/intel_foundry_arm/

cptskippy 8y ago

Spinning up a chip isn't as easy is uploading your Eagle CAD file to a Fab and punching in unit quantities. Each Fab's manufacturing process has certain design constrains that will most likely require some amount of custom design and layout. Certain designs might not even be possible on certain processes. They certainly can go to TMSC or GF with their designs but it will take time (months or years) to validate the designs, and money to make it happen. And this doesn't even take into account Fab capacities. TMSC and GF might be committed to other firms and not have capacity for this new work. The 5G rollout has already started and vendors should have been shipping their products by now. Not having anything for the first wave means you're going to lose most of the market.