17 ms·

LibreOffice is now available for Haiku

298 points by vermaden 8y ago

DeathArrow 8y ago
Too bad is unusable.
- DominoTree 8y ago
  What's unusable?
  - logicchains 8y ago
    Too bad is.
Proven 8y ago
LO... Don't get me started...
dragonquest 8y ago
This is a massive achievement. Being able to run a modern browser and an Office Suite makes it a viable desktop alternative in the coming future. I'm happy to see variety in the desktop OS space once again!
poisonarena 8y ago
anyone notice real lag on an otherwise fastish Mac OSX build? Or perhaps add some insight to why that happens?
tr33house 8y ago
what's in haiku OS that's not in Linux? Is it like a bundled linux OS?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Haiku is a recreation of BeOS built on the NewOS kernel (not Linux). BeOS (and therefore Haiku) had some neat features like a database built into the FS, was designed to take advantage of multiprocessor systems, and put a lot of effort into providing great multimedia capabilities. From my perspective, the project seemed to have been taken over by Linux Desktop people, introduced a package manager, and I completely lost interest in it. In that respect, it's basically a much less functional Linux distro.
  - waddlesplash 8y ago
    Yes, we've been taken over by "Linux Desktop" people so much, a majority of the team is still opposed to using the Linux kernel, dislikes ported software, and actively works to not use GPL code when we can! Joking aside, I know the package manager was somehow a sticking point for people when it was merged in a pretty unpolished state, but at this point I'm not sure what the complaints are. Even most of the regular errors or problem states people associate with package managers don't occur all that often on Haiku. And I also note the people who did the most work on the LibreOffice port say they would not even have attempted it without the package manager, so there's that.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      > Joking aside, I know the package manager was somehow a sticking point for people when it was merged in a pretty unpolished state, but at this point I'm not sure what the complaints are. Package management is an awful paradigm for application management. I'm not familiar with Haiku's implementation, but the only reason anyone needs a package manager is if they intend on having a complex web of dependencies and spreading an application's files all over the hierarchy. In other words, they're a UNIX system. Implementations are almost always reliant on a centrally managed appstore-like repository that developers have to deal with to distribute software in the "official" way, often don't allow multiple concurrent instance of the same application to be install (different versions, for instance), are completely inflexible in regards to where applications are installed (so portability is right out), etc. Many of the problems I have with package managers were expressed by parts of the Haiku community when it introduced one. It appears that the developers disregarded these concerns because they like package management in Linux. Fine, they're the one's working on it, they can do what they want, but I don't have to like or praise that decision. > And I also note the people who did the most work on the LibreOffice port say they would not even have attempted it without the package manager, so there's that. Says a lot about the system then doesn't it? Windows has a portable LibreOffice, even Linux has an AppImage.
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/#is-haiku-based-on-linux https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/#is-haiku-based-on-linux
chatmasta 8y ago
For context re: Haiku OS (I had not heard of it before) From the project home page [0]: > Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful. From the wiki page [1]: > Haiku is a free and open-source operating system compatible with the now discontinued BeOS. Its development began in 2001, and the operating system became self-hosting in 2008. The first alpha release was made in September 2009, and the most recent was November 2012; development is ongoing as of 2018 with nightly releases. [0] https://www.haiku-os.org/ https://www.haiku-os.org/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  It's called "Haiku" not "Haiku OS". :) And see also our FAQ, since a lot of these questions wind up getting asked on these HN threads: https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/ https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/
  - chatmasta 8y ago
    Sorry about that! Reminds me of Tor not TOR. :)
fithisux 8y ago
Bravo guys.
HappyFapMachine 8y ago
Man, Haiku grew a lot since I tried to use it last time! Neat!
jlebrech 8y ago
a killer app would be docker
- klez 8y ago
  For a desktop operating system? I don't see why. Are there any use-cases of docker on the desktop I'm not seeing?
  - projectramo 8y ago
    Maybe the idea is that once you have docker, you have all the environments (ubuntu, wordpress or anything else). Is that how it works?
    - marksomnian 8y ago
      Still doesn't answer GP's question - what's the point of Docker on a desktop OS? Why would you run WordPress on the desktop? The only real reason I can think of would be for developers.
      - projectramo 8y ago
        Well if you run Ubuntu, you would get Ubuntu desktop (Gnome or Unity or whatever it is now), right? But yes, I was thinking developers.
        klez 8y ago
        At that point I may just be running Ubuntu, no?
      - jlebrech 8y ago
        you can run your toolchain whether or not it already works on haiku
        waddlesplash 8y ago
dingdingdang 8y ago
Tried Haiku recently and was much impressed with speed and stability but without being able to scale to 1920x1080 and having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment.. still, one can hope the project sees improvements - I've tracked Haiku along with ReactOS for potential real world usage for years now.. so.. any day now. EDIT: congratulations with LibreOffice port, that does make a difference in terms of usability.
- klez 8y ago
  > having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment Depends on what you mean by "modern computing environment". I mean, my computers are mine, an no-one else uses them. I know very few people that share their computer with other users (but maybe it's just my bubble). Another story entirely for those who use a smartphone/tablet for their personal computing (the target use of Haiku).
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    I think it depends on how your office is organized. I've worked places where the roles of people was more important than the people, themselves. So if you were performing a particular role you'd sit in a different seat/at a different computer. We all had out specialties, but knew enough about each other's work to pop in and out. This is often the case in time-sensitive operations, or when the computers are merely controlling something else larger or more important (mining operations machinery, steel mills, television stations, etc...) In a more traditional office environment, your computer is your own; like your desk or your red stapler. IT can log in to a shell remotely. This is the scenario that Haiku seems to be focused on. One is not necessarily better than the other. Just different. Different environments require different methods.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      One is still forced to wonder how multiple user support is useful in that environment, all you really want is to be able to authenticate and audit access to the workstation for multiple users via a centralized system.
Tade0 8y ago
Last time I heard about this OS was when it was mentioned in XKCD[0]. Out of curiosity I downloaded the image, installed it on a VM and played around a little. Later I forgot about it almost completely. Nice to see that this project didn't die and is making some decent progress. [0]https://3d.xkcd.com/806/ https://3d.xkcd.com/806/
projectramo 8y ago
You mean to tell me LibreOffice is on Haiku Haiku is complete
- pingiun 8y ago
  Almost, you got one too many syllables in the second sentence.
  - projectramo 8y ago
    Don't think I didn't wrestle long and hard on whether Libre is one syllable or two.
    - rishav_sharan 8y ago
      How does one pronounce it anyway? Is it lib-rey or liber (like liver)
      - projectramo 8y ago
        I just anglicize the french. So in french Leeb-grre (kind of like a throaty r, sounds a bit "gruh" but short) and in enlish Leeb-ru' (kind of like a very short "ruh"). More like Libra truncated. Its half way between a consonant and a vowel so I was torn. Glad we're facing the big issues here.
        james_in_the_uk 8y ago
        Agree. Libre is a french word.
        estebank 8y ago
        And Spanish :) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libre#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libre#Etymology
        deleted 8y ago
navjack27 8y ago
I wrote a thing about Haiku a bit ago https://navjack27.netlify.com/post/a-modern-os-haikuos-/ https://navjack27.netlify.com/post/a-modern-os-haikuos-/
- return_0e 8y ago
  > A big issue with Haiku is that there really isn’t a modern web browser available right now. The web browsers available to Haiku are all based on a recent version of WebKit (As of now we have merged commits from upstream dating from 2018), the same engine in Safari and it also allowed QtWebKit-based apps to run, previously Otto browser and Qupzilla until they migrated to QtWebEngine (based on the Blink engine which we don't have yet). So to me, that seems to be modern for a web browser that has HTML5 and can also play YouTube videos. Also, I have just replied to your comment on a recent 64 bit Haiku nightly in WebPositive.
chrisper 8y ago
As much as I wanted to love Libre Office I just couldn't stand the UI. Menus behind menus and bazillion buttons everywhere. Craved in and got an office license.
- krylon 8y ago
  I totally get you, because for me it is the other way 'round - I despise the ribbon bar vigorously, and when all the other applications picked it up, I felt like some higher power was mocking me. ;-) At least as of version 6, LibreOffice actually has a ribbon bar-mode, but enabling it was non-trivial, and disabling it was even harder. I hated it even more than the MS Office ribbon bar; but I am obviously biased. It would be interesting to hear from someone who likes the ribbon bar how LibreOffice's version compares against MS?
peatmoss 8y ago
Some day there will be a backlash against UX design that fetishizes minimalism, hiding features, and rearranging the deck chairs every six months. And on that day, when the masses go searching for a simple, organic interface that has logical menus and often used functionality exposed by buttons, I like to imagine that Haiku will be waiting there to salve the weary souls of my fellow travers.
- theamk 8y ago
  If you don't like modern UIs, I'd recommend Linux today. The main Ubuntu has all the crazy UI changes that I stopped following long time ago, but all the old stuff is still in repos. For example, this is blackbox 0.60.0 window manager, released around 2000: https://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/screenshots/19788 https://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/screenshots/19788 Almost 20 years later, the "blackbox" package is still around: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox . You can install it, choose it in the dropdown from the login screen and start using it. Or get a version of Ubuntu with this stuff pre-configured (like xubuntu or lubuntu) And the best part? You have all the modern software -- browsers, editors, compilers. You can be fully productive and enjoy the stable UI
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    I'm running bits and pieces of XFCE (via Xubuntu) with XMonad and dmenu :-) That said, what document viewer do I use when I want to read a PDF? Evince was the standard GTK/Gnome option, but it has hamburgerized everything to a state of being unusable. I recently discovered Atril, but I literally have to search DuckDuckGo for "evince xfce mate" every time I need to remember what it's called. Both Firefox and Chromium have buried everything in hamburger obfuscation land as well. I could name more. In short, even with my significantly customized Linux desktop, UX-ism still bites me. Yes I can find alternatives for a lot of things. No, I don't imagine Haiku being productive for me in the near term. But... Haiku does offer something of a complete thesis of how desktop UI should work. That desktop UI is firmly situated in the 1990s, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that is a good thing.
    - 8y ago
nallerooth 8y ago
I learned about the Haiku project in 2009, when I was in college. I was impressed by the community and I'm still a little sad that the hardware we wanted to use for prototyping (a tablet PC) got stuck in customs for a long time, so that we couldn't build the prototype we wanted (based on the Haiku OS). I'm still very impressed by the community, and I wish you all the best!
tombert 8y ago
Out of curiosity, does anyone run Haiku full time? I remember seeing a video on it a few years ago, but wasn't sure if it would do everything I wanted.
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  A few developers do, and I know of one company that deploys Haiku commercially (TuneTracker: http://tunetrackersystems.com/ http://tunetrackersystems.com/). I haven't reached that point myself; I'm still missing WiFi support on my laptop (hence why there's so many commits from me working on that area of the system recently ;) But I'm getting close.
  - tombert 8y ago
    I'm interested in this; how much work is it typically to port a package over? EDIT: I'm asking specifically a command-line package.
    - waddlesplash 8y ago
      Depends on the package. CLI tools that already work both Linux and some *BSD usually are pretty easy to port, often requiring only a small set of patches. GUI tools that use Qt shouldn't be too tricky either (the LibreOffice port is based on the Qt backend.) Other than that, it varies greatly by application. HaikuPorts (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports) is what handles the bulk of the work to get applications up and running. I guess the Ninja recipe (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-util/ninja/ninja-1.8.2.recipe https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-uti...) and patchset (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-util/ninja/patches/ninja-1.8.2.patchset https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-uti...) are pretty typical for a CLI app, and the Qupzilla recipe (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-client/qupzilla/qupzilla-1.8.9.recipe https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-cli...) and patchset (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-client/qupzilla/patches/qupzilla-1.8.9.patchset https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-cli...) are roughly typical for a Qt app. If you have some specific application you're trying to port, joining Freenode#haiku and then asking around may be worth your time. :)
matthiaswh 8y ago
What makes Haiku better for personal computing, from the end-user perspective? Or to put it in another perspective, who is the eventual target user for Haiku? I'd like to find an excuse to test it out even knowing it's in alpha stages, but this seems to be missing from the FAQs. The only noteworthy statement is that it is fast, efficient, and easy to use. I'm not sure if those are sticking points for most users.
- cwyers 8y ago
  People who really, really miss BeOS.
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  I guess the "Why not Linux?" part of our FAQ is as much of an excuse as one can make, besides pure curiosity of course: https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq#why-not-linux https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq#why-not-linux > Linux-based distributions stack up software – the Linux kernel, the X Window System, and various DEs with disparate toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt – that do not necessarily share the same guidelines and/or goals. This lack of consistency and overall vision manifests itself in increased complexity, insufficient integration, and inefficient solutions, making the use of your computer more complicated than it should actually be. > Instead, Haiku has a single focus on personal computing and is driven by a unified vision for the whole OS. That, we believe, enables Haiku to provide a leaner, cleaner and more efficient system capable of providing a better user experience that is simple and uniform throughout.
  - cosmojg 8y ago
    Why not *BSD?
    - waddlesplash 8y ago
      BSD only has one less layer as an "external" system (the initial userland libraries and utilities). X11, the desktop environment, etc. are still "stacked up."
  - 8y ago
cwyers 8y ago
So, I looked into NewOS, the kernel that Haiku is based off of. It hasn't been updated in 10 years (I gather that Haiku's fork has taken most of the attention, so that's neither here or there). That said, I found this amusing: > The system currently can be built to run on the follwing systems: > Intel IA-32 (x86) - Tested on desktops through 4-way servers > Sega Dreamcast - Hitachi SH-4 > PPC based machines - G3/G4 Macs, Pegasos Sega Dreamcast!
- Avshalom 8y ago
  The SH-4 is actually still supported by mainline GCC
  - cwyers 8y ago
    Almost everything is still supported by mainline GCC. I don't know, it's a weird choice to me, given that BeOS never AFAICT supported Dreamcast either.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      The Dreamcast has a pretty big homebrew scene because it was super trivial to run your own code on an unmodded console and it also ran some form of Windows CE. It was probably low-hanging fruit to add it and someone thought it'd be cool, though actually doing testing on the DC will give you a good idea of how much your changes are affecting the performance and resource utilization.
      - Avshalom 8y ago
        Renesas also still sells SH2/4 chips https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/superh.html https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-micr...
  - PeCaN 8y ago
    It's still supported by OpenBSD and QNX as well. It's actually not really dead and is moderately popular in embedded systems. Also, the patents are expiring and the http://j-core.org/ http://j-core.org/ project is working on an open-source reimplementation (they've already done SH-2).
krylon 8y ago
This is amazing news!
bmn__ 8y ago
Somewhat off-topic: does anyone know how to make that BeOS/Haiku window decoration (B Ⅱ) work in KDE5? https://cn.pling.com/img/hive/content-pre2/5965-2.png https://cn.pling.com/img/hive/content-pre2/5965-2.png https://discuss.haiku-os.org/uploads/default/original/2X/e/ecc6b18f7b41f02fe88276c49b438757addfc4f5.jpg https://discuss.haiku-os.org/uploads/default/original/2X/e/e...
- badsectoracula 8y ago
  I don't know about KWin, but there is a BeOS-like XFCE theme [1] so you might be able to swap KWin with XFWM and use that. [1] https://i.imgur.com/emP3Jk4.png https://i.imgur.com/emP3Jk4.png (not my shot)
rubyfan 8y ago
TIL: Haiku OS is still around.

298 points by vermaden 8y ago

DeathArrow 8y ago

Too bad is unusable.

DominoTree 8y ago
What's unusable?
- logicchains 8y ago
  Too bad is.

Proven 8y ago

LO... Don't get me started...

dragonquest 8y ago

This is a massive achievement. Being able to run a modern browser and an Office Suite makes it a viable desktop alternative in the coming future. I'm happy to see variety in the desktop OS space once again!

poisonarena 8y ago

anyone notice real lag on an otherwise fastish Mac OSX build? Or perhaps add some insight to why that happens?

tr33house 8y ago

what's in haiku OS that's not in Linux? Is it like a bundled linux OS?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Haiku is a recreation of BeOS built on the NewOS kernel (not Linux). BeOS (and therefore Haiku) had some neat features like a database built into the FS, was designed to take advantage of multiprocessor systems, and put a lot of effort into providing great multimedia capabilities. From my perspective, the project seemed to have been taken over by Linux Desktop people, introduced a package manager, and I completely lost interest in it. In that respect, it's basically a much less functional Linux distro.
- waddlesplash 8y ago
  Yes, we've been taken over by "Linux Desktop" people so much, a majority of the team is still opposed to using the Linux kernel, dislikes ported software, and actively works to not use GPL code when we can! Joking aside, I know the package manager was somehow a sticking point for people when it was merged in a pretty unpolished state, but at this point I'm not sure what the complaints are. Even most of the regular errors or problem states people associate with package managers don't occur all that often on Haiku. And I also note the people who did the most work on the LibreOffice port say they would not even have attempted it without the package manager, so there's that.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > Joking aside, I know the package manager was somehow a sticking point for people when it was merged in a pretty unpolished state, but at this point I'm not sure what the complaints are. Package management is an awful paradigm for application management. I'm not familiar with Haiku's implementation, but the only reason anyone needs a package manager is if they intend on having a complex web of dependencies and spreading an application's files all over the hierarchy. In other words, they're a UNIX system. Implementations are almost always reliant on a centrally managed appstore-like repository that developers have to deal with to distribute software in the "official" way, often don't allow multiple concurrent instance of the same application to be install (different versions, for instance), are completely inflexible in regards to where applications are installed (so portability is right out), etc. Many of the problems I have with package managers were expressed by parts of the Haiku community when it introduced one. It appears that the developers disregarded these concerns because they like package management in Linux. Fine, they're the one's working on it, they can do what they want, but I don't have to like or praise that decision. > And I also note the people who did the most work on the LibreOffice port say they would not even have attempted it without the package manager, so there's that. Says a lot about the system then doesn't it? Windows has a portable LibreOffice, even Linux has an AppImage.
waddlesplash 8y ago
https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/#is-haiku-based-on-linux https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/#is-haiku-based-on-linux

chatmasta 8y ago

For context re: Haiku OS (I had not heard of it before) From the project home page [0]: > Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful. From the wiki page [1]: > Haiku is a free and open-source operating system compatible with the now discontinued BeOS. Its development began in 2001, and the operating system became self-hosting in 2008. The first alpha release was made in September 2009, and the most recent was November 2012; development is ongoing as of 2018 with nightly releases. [0] https://www.haiku-os.org/ https://www.haiku-os.org/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)

waddlesplash 8y ago
It's called "Haiku" not "Haiku OS". :) And see also our FAQ, since a lot of these questions wind up getting asked on these HN threads: https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/ https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/
- chatmasta 8y ago
  Sorry about that! Reminds me of Tor not TOR. :)

fithisux 8y ago

Bravo guys.

HappyFapMachine 8y ago

Man, Haiku grew a lot since I tried to use it last time! Neat!

jlebrech 8y ago

a killer app would be docker

klez 8y ago
For a desktop operating system? I don't see why. Are there any use-cases of docker on the desktop I'm not seeing?
- projectramo 8y ago
  Maybe the idea is that once you have docker, you have all the environments (ubuntu, wordpress or anything else). Is that how it works?
  - marksomnian 8y ago
    Still doesn't answer GP's question - what's the point of Docker on a desktop OS? Why would you run WordPress on the desktop? The only real reason I can think of would be for developers.
    - projectramo 8y ago
      Well if you run Ubuntu, you would get Ubuntu desktop (Gnome or Unity or whatever it is now), right? But yes, I was thinking developers.
      - klez 8y ago
        At that point I may just be running Ubuntu, no?
    - jlebrech 8y ago
      you can run your toolchain whether or not it already works on haiku
      - waddlesplash 8y ago

dingdingdang 8y ago

Tried Haiku recently and was much impressed with speed and stability but without being able to scale to 1920x1080 and having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment.. still, one can hope the project sees improvements - I've tracked Haiku along with ReactOS for potential real world usage for years now.. so.. any day now. EDIT: congratulations with LibreOffice port, that does make a difference in terms of usability.

klez 8y ago
> having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment Depends on what you mean by "modern computing environment". I mean, my computers are mine, an no-one else uses them. I know very few people that share their computer with other users (but maybe it's just my bubble). Another story entirely for those who use a smartphone/tablet for their personal computing (the target use of Haiku).
- reaperducer 8y ago
  I think it depends on how your office is organized. I've worked places where the roles of people was more important than the people, themselves. So if you were performing a particular role you'd sit in a different seat/at a different computer. We all had out specialties, but knew enough about each other's work to pop in and out. This is often the case in time-sensitive operations, or when the computers are merely controlling something else larger or more important (mining operations machinery, steel mills, television stations, etc...) In a more traditional office environment, your computer is your own; like your desk or your red stapler. IT can log in to a shell remotely. This is the scenario that Haiku seems to be focused on. One is not necessarily better than the other. Just different. Different environments require different methods.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    One is still forced to wonder how multiple user support is useful in that environment, all you really want is to be able to authenticate and audit access to the workstation for multiple users via a centralized system.

Tade0 8y ago

Last time I heard about this OS was when it was mentioned in XKCD[0]. Out of curiosity I downloaded the image, installed it on a VM and played around a little. Later I forgot about it almost completely. Nice to see that this project didn't die and is making some decent progress. [0]https://3d.xkcd.com/806/ https://3d.xkcd.com/806/

projectramo 8y ago

You mean to tell me LibreOffice is on Haiku Haiku is complete

pingiun 8y ago
Almost, you got one too many syllables in the second sentence.
- projectramo 8y ago
  Don't think I didn't wrestle long and hard on whether Libre is one syllable or two.
  - rishav_sharan 8y ago
    How does one pronounce it anyway? Is it lib-rey or liber (like liver)
    - projectramo 8y ago
      I just anglicize the french. So in french Leeb-grre (kind of like a throaty r, sounds a bit "gruh" but short) and in enlish Leeb-ru' (kind of like a very short "ruh"). More like Libra truncated. Its half way between a consonant and a vowel so I was torn. Glad we're facing the big issues here.
      - james_in_the_uk 8y ago
        Agree. Libre is a french word.
        estebank 8y ago
        And Spanish :) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libre#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libre#Etymology
      - deleted 8y ago

navjack27 8y ago

I wrote a thing about Haiku a bit ago https://navjack27.netlify.com/post/a-modern-os-haikuos-/ https://navjack27.netlify.com/post/a-modern-os-haikuos-/

return_0e 8y ago
> A big issue with Haiku is that there really isn’t a modern web browser available right now. The web browsers available to Haiku are all based on a recent version of WebKit (As of now we have merged commits from upstream dating from 2018), the same engine in Safari and it also allowed QtWebKit-based apps to run, previously Otto browser and Qupzilla until they migrated to QtWebEngine (based on the Blink engine which we don't have yet). So to me, that seems to be modern for a web browser that has HTML5 and can also play YouTube videos. Also, I have just replied to your comment on a recent 64 bit Haiku nightly in WebPositive.

chrisper 8y ago

As much as I wanted to love Libre Office I just couldn't stand the UI. Menus behind menus and bazillion buttons everywhere. Craved in and got an office license.

krylon 8y ago
I totally get you, because for me it is the other way 'round - I despise the ribbon bar vigorously, and when all the other applications picked it up, I felt like some higher power was mocking me. ;-) At least as of version 6, LibreOffice actually has a ribbon bar-mode, but enabling it was non-trivial, and disabling it was even harder. I hated it even more than the MS Office ribbon bar; but I am obviously biased. It would be interesting to hear from someone who likes the ribbon bar how LibreOffice's version compares against MS?

peatmoss 8y ago

Some day there will be a backlash against UX design that fetishizes minimalism, hiding features, and rearranging the deck chairs every six months. And on that day, when the masses go searching for a simple, organic interface that has logical menus and often used functionality exposed by buttons, I like to imagine that Haiku will be waiting there to salve the weary souls of my fellow travers.

theamk 8y ago
If you don't like modern UIs, I'd recommend Linux today. The main Ubuntu has all the crazy UI changes that I stopped following long time ago, but all the old stuff is still in repos. For example, this is blackbox 0.60.0 window manager, released around 2000: https://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/screenshots/19788 https://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/screenshots/19788 Almost 20 years later, the "blackbox" package is still around: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox . You can install it, choose it in the dropdown from the login screen and start using it. Or get a version of Ubuntu with this stuff pre-configured (like xubuntu or lubuntu) And the best part? You have all the modern software -- browsers, editors, compilers. You can be fully productive and enjoy the stable UI
- peatmoss 8y ago
  I'm running bits and pieces of XFCE (via Xubuntu) with XMonad and dmenu :-) That said, what document viewer do I use when I want to read a PDF? Evince was the standard GTK/Gnome option, but it has hamburgerized everything to a state of being unusable. I recently discovered Atril, but I literally have to search DuckDuckGo for "evince xfce mate" every time I need to remember what it's called. Both Firefox and Chromium have buried everything in hamburger obfuscation land as well. I could name more. In short, even with my significantly customized Linux desktop, UX-ism still bites me. Yes I can find alternatives for a lot of things. No, I don't imagine Haiku being productive for me in the near term. But... Haiku does offer something of a complete thesis of how desktop UI should work. That desktop UI is firmly situated in the 1990s, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that is a good thing.
  - 8y ago

nallerooth 8y ago

I learned about the Haiku project in 2009, when I was in college. I was impressed by the community and I'm still a little sad that the hardware we wanted to use for prototyping (a tablet PC) got stuck in customs for a long time, so that we couldn't build the prototype we wanted (based on the Haiku OS). I'm still very impressed by the community, and I wish you all the best!

tombert 8y ago

Out of curiosity, does anyone run Haiku full time? I remember seeing a video on it a few years ago, but wasn't sure if it would do everything I wanted.

waddlesplash 8y ago
A few developers do, and I know of one company that deploys Haiku commercially (TuneTracker: http://tunetrackersystems.com/ http://tunetrackersystems.com/). I haven't reached that point myself; I'm still missing WiFi support on my laptop (hence why there's so many commits from me working on that area of the system recently ;) But I'm getting close.
- tombert 8y ago
  I'm interested in this; how much work is it typically to port a package over? EDIT: I'm asking specifically a command-line package.
  - waddlesplash 8y ago
    Depends on the package. CLI tools that already work both Linux and some *BSD usually are pretty easy to port, often requiring only a small set of patches. GUI tools that use Qt shouldn't be too tricky either (the LibreOffice port is based on the Qt backend.) Other than that, it varies greatly by application. HaikuPorts (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports) is what handles the bulk of the work to get applications up and running. I guess the Ninja recipe (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-util/ninja/ninja-1.8.2.recipe https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-uti...) and patchset (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-util/ninja/patches/ninja-1.8.2.patchset https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/dev-uti...) are pretty typical for a CLI app, and the Qupzilla recipe (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-client/qupzilla/qupzilla-1.8.9.recipe https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-cli...) and patchset (https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-client/qupzilla/patches/qupzilla-1.8.9.patchset https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/www-cli...) are roughly typical for a Qt app. If you have some specific application you're trying to port, joining Freenode#haiku and then asking around may be worth your time. :)

matthiaswh 8y ago

What makes Haiku better for personal computing, from the end-user perspective? Or to put it in another perspective, who is the eventual target user for Haiku? I'd like to find an excuse to test it out even knowing it's in alpha stages, but this seems to be missing from the FAQs. The only noteworthy statement is that it is fast, efficient, and easy to use. I'm not sure if those are sticking points for most users.

cwyers 8y ago
People who really, really miss BeOS.
waddlesplash 8y ago
I guess the "Why not Linux?" part of our FAQ is as much of an excuse as one can make, besides pure curiosity of course: https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq#why-not-linux https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq#why-not-linux > Linux-based distributions stack up software – the Linux kernel, the X Window System, and various DEs with disparate toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt – that do not necessarily share the same guidelines and/or goals. This lack of consistency and overall vision manifests itself in increased complexity, insufficient integration, and inefficient solutions, making the use of your computer more complicated than it should actually be. > Instead, Haiku has a single focus on personal computing and is driven by a unified vision for the whole OS. That, we believe, enables Haiku to provide a leaner, cleaner and more efficient system capable of providing a better user experience that is simple and uniform throughout.
- cosmojg 8y ago
  Why not *BSD?
  - waddlesplash 8y ago
    BSD only has one less layer as an "external" system (the initial userland libraries and utilities). X11, the desktop environment, etc. are still "stacked up."
- 8y ago

cwyers 8y ago

So, I looked into NewOS, the kernel that Haiku is based off of. It hasn't been updated in 10 years (I gather that Haiku's fork has taken most of the attention, so that's neither here or there). That said, I found this amusing: > The system currently can be built to run on the follwing systems: > Intel IA-32 (x86) - Tested on desktops through 4-way servers > Sega Dreamcast - Hitachi SH-4 > PPC based machines - G3/G4 Macs, Pegasos Sega Dreamcast!

Avshalom 8y ago
The SH-4 is actually still supported by mainline GCC
- cwyers 8y ago
  Almost everything is still supported by mainline GCC. I don't know, it's a weird choice to me, given that BeOS never AFAICT supported Dreamcast either.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    The Dreamcast has a pretty big homebrew scene because it was super trivial to run your own code on an unmodded console and it also ran some form of Windows CE. It was probably low-hanging fruit to add it and someone thought it'd be cool, though actually doing testing on the DC will give you a good idea of how much your changes are affecting the performance and resource utilization.
    - Avshalom 8y ago
      Renesas also still sells SH2/4 chips https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/superh.html https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-micr...
- PeCaN 8y ago
  It's still supported by OpenBSD and QNX as well. It's actually not really dead and is moderately popular in embedded systems. Also, the patents are expiring and the http://j-core.org/ http://j-core.org/ project is working on an open-source reimplementation (they've already done SH-2).

krylon 8y ago

This is amazing news!

bmn__ 8y ago

Somewhat off-topic: does anyone know how to make that BeOS/Haiku window decoration (B Ⅱ) work in KDE5? https://cn.pling.com/img/hive/content-pre2/5965-2.png https://cn.pling.com/img/hive/content-pre2/5965-2.png https://discuss.haiku-os.org/uploads/default/original/2X/e/ecc6b18f7b41f02fe88276c49b438757addfc4f5.jpg https://discuss.haiku-os.org/uploads/default/original/2X/e/e...

badsectoracula 8y ago
I don't know about KWin, but there is a BeOS-like XFCE theme [1] so you might be able to swap KWin with XFWM and use that. [1] https://i.imgur.com/emP3Jk4.png https://i.imgur.com/emP3Jk4.png (not my shot)

rubyfan 8y ago

TIL: Haiku OS is still around.