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Thank you. I am mystified by the apparently widespread mental framework that roads don't actually do anything other than attract masses of people in cars, inexp

Thank you. I am mystified by the apparently widespread mental framework that roads don't actually do anything other than attract masses of people in cars, inexplicably like insects toward bright light.

mratzloff 8y ago
Versus what?
- taejo 8y ago
  Presumably if someone wants to go from A to B, or take goods from A to B, they derive some social or economic benefit from that (as do the people at B).
CalRobert 8y ago
I know you didn't mean it, but honestly your analogy is kind of brilliant. It does feel that way as somebody who enjoys walking.
gascan 8y ago
It's true that roads convey people & permit economic activity. But that road down the way that is so congested right now? If we expanded it, and it could convey more cars at the same level of congestion- where did they come from? The latent demand represents potential traffic that either: 1) is doing just fine taking a different route right now 2) isn't particularly economically valuable, i.e. not worth waiting through traffic for 3) things like future sprawl enabled by wider roads today In order, #1 is not particularly valuable to reroute, it was doing ok. #2 is not very valuable either, though perhaps a little. #3 creates new demand, but the only thing we get in return is lower density. So I guess in sum the point is that all the most economically valuable travel is already happening, right now, and by widening the road we add only the travel that has such marginal economic value it's not worth doing today. So the more we widen the road, the less & less economic value we get in return.
- SerLava 8y ago
  >2) isn't particularly economically valuable, i.e. not worth waiting through traffic for With schedules and business operating hours, many economic activities are impossible due to hard time constraints. I don't see how your argument would be less applicable to a city with two dirt roads.

mratzloff 8y ago

Versus what?

taejo 8y ago
Presumably if someone wants to go from A to B, or take goods from A to B, they derive some social or economic benefit from that (as do the people at B).

CalRobert 8y ago

I know you didn't mean it, but honestly your analogy is kind of brilliant. It does feel that way as somebody who enjoys walking.

gascan 8y ago

It's true that roads convey people & permit economic activity. But that road down the way that is so congested right now? If we expanded it, and it could convey more cars at the same level of congestion- where did they come from? The latent demand represents potential traffic that either: 1) is doing just fine taking a different route right now 2) isn't particularly economically valuable, i.e. not worth waiting through traffic for 3) things like future sprawl enabled by wider roads today In order, #1 is not particularly valuable to reroute, it was doing ok. #2 is not very valuable either, though perhaps a little. #3 creates new demand, but the only thing we get in return is lower density. So I guess in sum the point is that all the most economically valuable travel is already happening, right now, and by widening the road we add only the travel that has such marginal economic value it's not worth doing today. So the more we widen the road, the less & less economic value we get in return.

SerLava 8y ago
>2) isn't particularly economically valuable, i.e. not worth waiting through traffic for With schedules and business operating hours, many economic activities are impossible due to hard time constraints. I don't see how your argument would be less applicable to a city with two dirt roads.