5 ms·

I wonder what the Paris Green of today is - the things that are killing us, but we just don't know it yet.

duxup 8y ago
I often wonder the same thing. It seems likely that something we take for granted is possibly poisonous considering the number of chemicals we are exposed to in various ways.
- jonathanoliver 8y ago
  The debate on cell phones and their effects is fun to watch. In another 30+ years we should have a solid body of evidence one way or another.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    Or you could look at the very comprehensive evidence available now. Cigarette companies weren't unaware of the health dangers of their products. Asbestosis wasn't a mystery for decades before any serious action was taken.
    - jonathanoliver 8y ago
      I was hoping for 30+ year studies on this topic. Also, for things like LASIK surgery where people who have had LASIK 50+ years earlier and what effects it had on their vision. Results take time to measure.
      - contingencies 8y ago
        What about all the crazy stuff people do to their bodies in the name of beauty? Most of that has to be unhealthy. Skin whitening, starvation, insertion and removal of stuff, stretching of stuff, etc. An ode to the humble corset?
  - garmaine 8y ago
    We have a solid body of evidence now. Cell phone radios do not disrupt biological systems.
    - colordrops 8y ago
      Don't just spout unfounded statements as fact, especially when they are the exact opposite of the truth. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4781774/ https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4781774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3184892/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3184892/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110569017301875 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S111056901... https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/cellular-phones.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposu... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/cell-phones-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/r... https://www.ewg.org/cell-phone-radiation-affects-brain-function https://www.ewg.org/cell-phone-radiation-affects-brain-funct...
    - crazynick4 8y ago
      Although observable physical effects on humans have not been proven, behavioral effects on insects have been documented. These are interesting pilot studies because insect behavior is relatively simple and deviations more easily measured when compared to humans. Any explanations as far as the physical mechanism would involve changes in brain chemistry/activity which can be too subtle to detect. I would hold out on a final verdict for now as far as humans go and I don't think further studies should be ridiculed as paranoid just yet. Given the global use of cellphones I think it's better to err on the side of caution. It's an unpopular suggestion, especially at a time when tin foil hat conspiracies abound, but I don't think it's uneasonable. Emf is an observed physical phenomenon so there is nothing supernatural about the possibility of it's effects on human behavior. I should also add that what we really have is not so much a solid body of evidence but a number of studies which show a lack of evidence. This could just as easily point to the harmlessness of cell phones as our inability to observe their effects.
      - dantheman0207 8y ago
- jey 8y ago
  I'm waiting for the full story on endocrine disruptors. Maybe there's nothing there, but it also doesn't seem like we really understand their total effects.
- lathiat 8y ago
  I imagine most likely at this point things that are flat out lethal are less likely, but there will be a lot more things that while not lethal might be quite inconvenient - or even just a nuisance, without being truly obvious.
  - jonhendry18 8y ago
    Wait until the current administration's war on regulations is done. Who knows what'll end up on the market.
- fpoling 8y ago
  One example is processed meat [1]. The precervatives increase shelf life together with the cancer rates. https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization...
itronitron 8y ago
Plastics!
- garmaine 8y ago
  Unlikely. Plastics are composed of large bio-compatible molecules. The main danger of plastics by themselves is displacement--bits of plastic getting lodged in tissue or cells and sticking around because of that bio-compatibility. That's a real concern, but hardly on the same level as arsenic which chemically disrupts the function of our cells. There are secondary effects of plastics which accumulate and later release other toxins, but it's a bit disingenuous to blame that on the plastic.
garmaine 8y ago
Quantum dots and carbon nanotubes.
- therein 8y ago
  Does that mean I should stop ingesting C60 Buckminsterfullerene despite the superstrength?
  - garmaine 8y ago
    I assume you're joking, but yes. The issue is surface area and cross section, as these very small molecules tend to disrupt/block catalytic processes inside the cell. In the early hype days of nanotechnology they were thought to be extremely bio-compatible because they are basically chemically inert from a biological perspective, but it turns out they can act very well as a wrench in the gears of cellular machinery in ways that we are just now beginning to understand. I don't want that to be considered anti-nanotech in any way, as that is my field and hope for the future. But that vision of carbon nanobots swimming our bloodstream is probably not accurate foretelling of the future. We'll probably be using protein components instead for easier bio-biodegradability.
tbabb 8y ago
There are some studies suggesting that type 2 diabetes might be prion-transmitted, which are not destroyed by normal sterilization techniques. So we might be transmitting that (and god knows what else) with routine surgery.
- iserkempf 8y ago
  We already know what causes type 2 diabetes - it's almost entirely a question of lifestyle
  - tbabb 8y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28159831 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28159831 Yes, and that's not mutually exclusive with there being a biochemical risk factor that triggers it or increases susceptibility. It is certainly a little out there, but if I had to guess at some hidden danger that's ubiquitous in our environment to which we are oblivious, I'd say "prions are more prevalent and dangerous than we think" isn't a bad place to start.

I often wonder the same thing. It seems likely that something we take for granted is possibly poisonous considering the number of chemicals we are exposed to in various ways.

jonathanoliver 8y ago
The debate on cell phones and their effects is fun to watch. In another 30+ years we should have a solid body of evidence one way or another.
- XorNot 8y ago
  Or you could look at the very comprehensive evidence available now. Cigarette companies weren't unaware of the health dangers of their products. Asbestosis wasn't a mystery for decades before any serious action was taken.
  - jonathanoliver 8y ago
    I was hoping for 30+ year studies on this topic. Also, for things like LASIK surgery where people who have had LASIK 50+ years earlier and what effects it had on their vision. Results take time to measure.
    - contingencies 8y ago
      What about all the crazy stuff people do to their bodies in the name of beauty? Most of that has to be unhealthy. Skin whitening, starvation, insertion and removal of stuff, stretching of stuff, etc. An ode to the humble corset?
- garmaine 8y ago
  We have a solid body of evidence now. Cell phone radios do not disrupt biological systems.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Don't just spout unfounded statements as fact, especially when they are the exact opposite of the truth. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4781774/ https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4781774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3184892/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3184892/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110569017301875 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S111056901... https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/cellular-phones.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposu... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/cell-phones-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/r... https://www.ewg.org/cell-phone-radiation-affects-brain-function https://www.ewg.org/cell-phone-radiation-affects-brain-funct...
  - crazynick4 8y ago
    Although observable physical effects on humans have not been proven, behavioral effects on insects have been documented. These are interesting pilot studies because insect behavior is relatively simple and deviations more easily measured when compared to humans. Any explanations as far as the physical mechanism would involve changes in brain chemistry/activity which can be too subtle to detect. I would hold out on a final verdict for now as far as humans go and I don't think further studies should be ridiculed as paranoid just yet. Given the global use of cellphones I think it's better to err on the side of caution. It's an unpopular suggestion, especially at a time when tin foil hat conspiracies abound, but I don't think it's uneasonable. Emf is an observed physical phenomenon so there is nothing supernatural about the possibility of it's effects on human behavior. I should also add that what we really have is not so much a solid body of evidence but a number of studies which show a lack of evidence. This could just as easily point to the harmlessness of cell phones as our inability to observe their effects.
    - dantheman0207 8y ago
jey 8y ago
I'm waiting for the full story on endocrine disruptors. Maybe there's nothing there, but it also doesn't seem like we really understand their total effects.
lathiat 8y ago
I imagine most likely at this point things that are flat out lethal are less likely, but there will be a lot more things that while not lethal might be quite inconvenient - or even just a nuisance, without being truly obvious.
- jonhendry18 8y ago
  Wait until the current administration's war on regulations is done. Who knows what'll end up on the market.
fpoling 8y ago
One example is processed meat [1]. The precervatives increase shelf life together with the cancer rates. https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization...

itronitron 8y ago

Plastics!

garmaine 8y ago
Unlikely. Plastics are composed of large bio-compatible molecules. The main danger of plastics by themselves is displacement--bits of plastic getting lodged in tissue or cells and sticking around because of that bio-compatibility. That's a real concern, but hardly on the same level as arsenic which chemically disrupts the function of our cells. There are secondary effects of plastics which accumulate and later release other toxins, but it's a bit disingenuous to blame that on the plastic.

garmaine 8y ago

Quantum dots and carbon nanotubes.

therein 8y ago
Does that mean I should stop ingesting C60 Buckminsterfullerene despite the superstrength?
- garmaine 8y ago
  I assume you're joking, but yes. The issue is surface area and cross section, as these very small molecules tend to disrupt/block catalytic processes inside the cell. In the early hype days of nanotechnology they were thought to be extremely bio-compatible because they are basically chemically inert from a biological perspective, but it turns out they can act very well as a wrench in the gears of cellular machinery in ways that we are just now beginning to understand. I don't want that to be considered anti-nanotech in any way, as that is my field and hope for the future. But that vision of carbon nanobots swimming our bloodstream is probably not accurate foretelling of the future. We'll probably be using protein components instead for easier bio-biodegradability.

tbabb 8y ago

There are some studies suggesting that type 2 diabetes might be prion-transmitted, which are not destroyed by normal sterilization techniques. So we might be transmitting that (and god knows what else) with routine surgery.

iserkempf 8y ago
We already know what causes type 2 diabetes - it's almost entirely a question of lifestyle
- tbabb 8y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28159831 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28159831 Yes, and that's not mutually exclusive with there being a biochemical risk factor that triggers it or increases susceptibility. It is certainly a little out there, but if I had to guess at some hidden danger that's ubiquitous in our environment to which we are oblivious, I'd say "prions are more prevalent and dangerous than we think" isn't a bad place to start.