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I think there's probably some cultural assumptions in your list. I tend to assume Neapolitan style when talking about pizza, but I know this is not the default

by Jedd 8y ago

I think there's probably some cultural assumptions in your list. I tend to assume Neapolitan style when talking about pizza, but I know this is not the default for most people. That is - 450C (at least), cooking time under 90s, thin / crisp crust, with minimal toppings. In AU this is not hard to find, but there certainly are plenty of chain pizza restaurants that go for the heavy, piled-on, thick crust, 10 minutes to bake/boil. I gather in the US there are regions where the latter (Chicago perhaps?) is the default, but I'm not sure how common the genuine Neapolitan style is - in availability or popularity. Anyway, to your list -- if toppings are flowing at all, you've got too many toppings. You definitely do want high protein flour - at least 12%, or higher if you can find it. When I lived in the UK this meant imported Canadian flour as the domestic product simply couldn't do it. In AU it's hard to find much above 12%. If you need to cool your pizza for 2-5 minutes before cutting, it's too big. : ) Agreed on avoiding cheap (or rather, low-quality) ingredients. Less is more on toppings - but go for the most exquisitely flavoured varieties you can find. Sugar .. I think is not needed. Tomatoes are high in sugars, and good flour really shouldn't need the additional sugars for the yeast. If it's for flavour only, then I can't help.

maxerickson 8y ago
You are underestimating the peculiarity of Chicago style pizza. I would think you would be able to source vital wheat gluten.
Jupe 8y ago
I eat a lot of "vegetables" , so a pizza for me is a vehicle for savory vegetables... Onions, bell pepper, olives, etc. So "moating" is something I'm sensitive to. But, to each his own.
sgc 8y ago
They also import Manitoba flour in Italy to make pizza. High gluten is a must or it will just fall apart if it is the right thickness / cooked correctly. 90 seconds is faster than usual, but yes it is cooked fast. Neapolitan in Italy means thicker crust than other regions, but you are probably right that is what you are eating. Outside of Italy I am not sure many people would be able to recognize the difference.
- Jedd 8y ago
  The 90s maximum thing was told to me by the bread chef at River Cottage (woo!) ... I did subsequently check, and it seems to be legit in terms of being able to be called a Neapolitan style pizza [1] -- you need to have it cooked in under 90s. There's some other quite specific requirements, around thinness of dough, and flour type. I gather the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana is a bit like the Comité Champagne - eager to protect their good name, and for good reason. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_pizza
  - greggman 8y ago
    never had a napoletana pizza with a crisp crust unless we have a different definition of crisp they are all pretty chewy which I love.
  - sgc 8y ago
    I can tell you straight up that in the real world that is not what happens most of the time. It's also not always Oak, many places use Beech or similar woods. It's virtually impossible to run an oven with 20 pizzas in it at that pace, and I have worked with some incredible Pizzaioli. I am also far from convinced that keeping it under 2 minutes makes the best pizza, and there were many times where we considered the oven too hot and had to damper it to cook properly. A lower temp--but very well heated for appropriate thermal mass--oven was the bee's knees.
    - Jedd 8y ago
      Yup, I'm sure there's a bit of licence exercised with some of those requirements. For example, making quite a small pizza would make it easier to get sufficient heat / rise in under 90s -- this is what we were doing on our bread-making course. The wood oven had been heating up all morning, I think reaching more than 500, but we were cooking with the fire completely removed, and the thermal mass holding the temperature around 350 ish from memory. More than sufficient.

by Jedd 8y ago

maxerickson 8y ago

You are underestimating the peculiarity of Chicago style pizza. I would think you would be able to source vital wheat gluten.

Jupe 8y ago

I eat a lot of "vegetables" , so a pizza for me is a vehicle for savory vegetables... Onions, bell pepper, olives, etc. So "moating" is something I'm sensitive to. But, to each his own.

sgc 8y ago

They also import Manitoba flour in Italy to make pizza. High gluten is a must or it will just fall apart if it is the right thickness / cooked correctly. 90 seconds is faster than usual, but yes it is cooked fast. Neapolitan in Italy means thicker crust than other regions, but you are probably right that is what you are eating. Outside of Italy I am not sure many people would be able to recognize the difference.

Jedd 8y ago
The 90s maximum thing was told to me by the bread chef at River Cottage (woo!) ... I did subsequently check, and it seems to be legit in terms of being able to be called a Neapolitan style pizza [1] -- you need to have it cooked in under 90s. There's some other quite specific requirements, around thinness of dough, and flour type. I gather the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana is a bit like the Comité Champagne - eager to protect their good name, and for good reason. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_pizza
- greggman 8y ago
  never had a napoletana pizza with a crisp crust unless we have a different definition of crisp they are all pretty chewy which I love.
- sgc 8y ago
  I can tell you straight up that in the real world that is not what happens most of the time. It's also not always Oak, many places use Beech or similar woods. It's virtually impossible to run an oven with 20 pizzas in it at that pace, and I have worked with some incredible Pizzaioli. I am also far from convinced that keeping it under 2 minutes makes the best pizza, and there were many times where we considered the oven too hot and had to damper it to cook properly. A lower temp--but very well heated for appropriate thermal mass--oven was the bee's knees.
  - Jedd 8y ago
    Yup, I'm sure there's a bit of licence exercised with some of those requirements. For example, making quite a small pizza would make it easier to get sufficient heat / rise in under 90s -- this is what we were doing on our bread-making course. The wood oven had been heating up all morning, I think reaching more than 500, but we were cooking with the fire completely removed, and the thermal mass holding the temperature around 350 ish from memory. More than sufficient.