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My Pizza Rules (not that anyone asked, but...) 1. Don't "Moat" your pizza. The barren expanse of dried sauce and over-sized crust is the classic sign of "moati

by Jupe 8y ago

My Pizza Rules (not that anyone asked, but...) 1. Don't "Moat" your pizza. The barren expanse of dried sauce and over-sized crust is the classic sign of "moating" the pizza. Spread the majority of the toppings as close to the edge as you'd like your crust to be, and reduce the amount of toppings (cheese, sauce, etc.) at the center. As the pizza cooks, the crust will rise, and the toppings will naturally flow to the center of the pie. 2. Don't use heavy-gluten flour. Some people like chewy (new your deli-style) pizza - but it has no business on my table. 3. Let the pizza cool for 2-5 mins before cutting. But, if you cool it for longer, put it on a rack so the bottom doesn't get soggy. 4. Never, ever, ever use cheap mozzarella. Especially if you are doing a sauce-less pizza. 5. You can put a touch of sugar in the dough, or you can put a touch of sugar in the sauce, but don't put it in both. Corollary: If you put pineapple or other sweet toppings on the pie, don't put any sugar in the sauce or dough.

mahesh_rm 8y ago
"You can put a touch of sugar in the dough, or you can put a touch of sugar in the sauce, but don't put it in both. Corollary: If you put pineapple or other sweet toppings on the pie, don't put any sugar in the sauce or dough." As an Italian, I feel the urge to jump in here. Sugar in dough is used to kickoff/boost yeast levitation, while sugar in sauce is used to affect tomato acidity. In both cases, they are not intended to provide your pizza with a sweet taste. If for some reasons you like some sweet flavor on your pizza, you should at least take into account the fact that it comes as a byproduct of diverse chemical reactions that affect consistency and PH of your pizza in multiple/subtle ways.
- Jupe 8y ago
  Fair enough... Pizza is a savory dish and I've he'd the displeasure (on multiple occasions) of having sweet sauce and dough bloomed with lots of sugar, and it transformed almost into a dessert.
- jacques_chester 8y ago
  The American concept of "a touch of sugar" is different from most places', so for that audience the advice is pretty sound. I moved to the USA from Australia. If I want bread that doesn't taste like cake, I actually have to bake it myself.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Have you tried buying bakery bread? Lots of them simply don't contain sugar at all. Really.
  - culturestate 8y ago
    As an American who lives abroad...I hear this about American bread all the time but I've yet to discover what's actually different. Supermarket sandwich bread is just about the same everywhere. Perhaps the rest of the world is just used to buying from a bakery, rather than the supermarket?
    - Djvacto 8y ago
      In my experience, the difference is that in the US, bakery bread is more expensive, while in Europe it's just as cheap to buy fresh.
    - pathsjs 8y ago
      Well, it's the other way round. In Italy supermarkets evolved to contain bakeries, because otherwise people would not buy supermarket bread. Nowadays you can find pretty good bread at the supermarket, but it is all fresh
      - culturestate 8y ago
        I should probably clarify: by "supermarket bread" I mean the pre-wrapped, pre-sliced stuff you buy from the carb aisle, like Wonderbread. Most American supermarkets (well, most suburban ones at any rate) also have traditional bakeries inside.
- skeletonjelly 8y ago
  I'm not sure sugar in sauce affects acidity, I think that's a myth. Finding it hard to find some studies on it though, best I've found: https://warmchef.com/does-sugar-reduce-acidity-in-tomato-sauce/ https://warmchef.com/does-sugar-reduce-acidity-in-tomato-sau...
  - tonyhb 8y ago
    No, but it does affect your perception of acidity.
- jazoom 8y ago
  I use sugar in the dough for making it slightly brown and a tiny bit crunchy.
  - dboreham 8y ago
    Olive oil is for that purpose. Sugar is to feed yeast. It won’t be there by the time the dough is fired.
    - jazoom 8y ago
      > It won’t be there by the time the dough is fired. In my dough it most certainly is, and it makes a big difference. Olive oil does not caramelise.
      - roel_v 8y ago
        ... your dough caramelizes? How much sugar do you put in?
        jazoom 8y ago
        Probably not as much as you're imagining. I like just a little bit of caramelisation.
  - crispyambulance 8y ago
    That will work, but the best way to add crunch and color to crust is to steam it: https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/02/28/steam-in-bread-baking/ https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/02/28/steam-in-bread-b... You crank up your oven to very high (for most ovens that is ALL THE WAY), let it stabilize temperature for 40-60 minutes with an empty pan in the rack underneath where the bread goes. When the bread goes in, pour a cup of water into the pan. This will create steam in the early stages of cooking and promote good crust properties.
    - jazoom 8y ago
      Thanks for the link. It looks interesting. I look forward to reading it later. I'll probably still end up doing the extra sugar when I feel like that particular type of dough (usually thin ones) since it's a different type of crunch.
Jedd 8y ago
I think there's probably some cultural assumptions in your list. I tend to assume Neapolitan style when talking about pizza, but I know this is not the default for most people. That is - 450C (at least), cooking time under 90s, thin / crisp crust, with minimal toppings. In AU this is not hard to find, but there certainly are plenty of chain pizza restaurants that go for the heavy, piled-on, thick crust, 10 minutes to bake/boil. I gather in the US there are regions where the latter (Chicago perhaps?) is the default, but I'm not sure how common the genuine Neapolitan style is - in availability or popularity. Anyway, to your list -- if toppings are flowing at all, you've got too many toppings. You definitely do want high protein flour - at least 12%, or higher if you can find it. When I lived in the UK this meant imported Canadian flour as the domestic product simply couldn't do it. In AU it's hard to find much above 12%. If you need to cool your pizza for 2-5 minutes before cutting, it's too big. : ) Agreed on avoiding cheap (or rather, low-quality) ingredients. Less is more on toppings - but go for the most exquisitely flavoured varieties you can find. Sugar .. I think is not needed. Tomatoes are high in sugars, and good flour really shouldn't need the additional sugars for the yeast. If it's for flavour only, then I can't help.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  You are underestimating the peculiarity of Chicago style pizza. I would think you would be able to source vital wheat gluten.
- Jupe 8y ago
  I eat a lot of "vegetables" , so a pizza for me is a vehicle for savory vegetables... Onions, bell pepper, olives, etc. So "moating" is something I'm sensitive to. But, to each his own.
- sgc 8y ago
  They also import Manitoba flour in Italy to make pizza. High gluten is a must or it will just fall apart if it is the right thickness / cooked correctly. 90 seconds is faster than usual, but yes it is cooked fast. Neapolitan in Italy means thicker crust than other regions, but you are probably right that is what you are eating. Outside of Italy I am not sure many people would be able to recognize the difference.

by Jupe 8y ago

mahesh_rm 8y ago

"You can put a touch of sugar in the dough, or you can put a touch of sugar in the sauce, but don't put it in both. Corollary: If you put pineapple or other sweet toppings on the pie, don't put any sugar in the sauce or dough." As an Italian, I feel the urge to jump in here. Sugar in dough is used to kickoff/boost yeast levitation, while sugar in sauce is used to affect tomato acidity. In both cases, they are not intended to provide your pizza with a sweet taste. If for some reasons you like some sweet flavor on your pizza, you should at least take into account the fact that it comes as a byproduct of diverse chemical reactions that affect consistency and PH of your pizza in multiple/subtle ways.

Jupe 8y ago
Fair enough... Pizza is a savory dish and I've he'd the displeasure (on multiple occasions) of having sweet sauce and dough bloomed with lots of sugar, and it transformed almost into a dessert.
jacques_chester 8y ago
The American concept of "a touch of sugar" is different from most places', so for that audience the advice is pretty sound. I moved to the USA from Australia. If I want bread that doesn't taste like cake, I actually have to bake it myself.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Have you tried buying bakery bread? Lots of them simply don't contain sugar at all. Really.
- culturestate 8y ago
  As an American who lives abroad...I hear this about American bread all the time but I've yet to discover what's actually different. Supermarket sandwich bread is just about the same everywhere. Perhaps the rest of the world is just used to buying from a bakery, rather than the supermarket?
  - Djvacto 8y ago
    In my experience, the difference is that in the US, bakery bread is more expensive, while in Europe it's just as cheap to buy fresh.
  - pathsjs 8y ago
    Well, it's the other way round. In Italy supermarkets evolved to contain bakeries, because otherwise people would not buy supermarket bread. Nowadays you can find pretty good bread at the supermarket, but it is all fresh
    - culturestate 8y ago
      I should probably clarify: by "supermarket bread" I mean the pre-wrapped, pre-sliced stuff you buy from the carb aisle, like Wonderbread. Most American supermarkets (well, most suburban ones at any rate) also have traditional bakeries inside.
skeletonjelly 8y ago
I'm not sure sugar in sauce affects acidity, I think that's a myth. Finding it hard to find some studies on it though, best I've found: https://warmchef.com/does-sugar-reduce-acidity-in-tomato-sauce/ https://warmchef.com/does-sugar-reduce-acidity-in-tomato-sau...
- tonyhb 8y ago
  No, but it does affect your perception of acidity.
jazoom 8y ago
I use sugar in the dough for making it slightly brown and a tiny bit crunchy.
- dboreham 8y ago
  Olive oil is for that purpose. Sugar is to feed yeast. It won’t be there by the time the dough is fired.
  - jazoom 8y ago
    > It won’t be there by the time the dough is fired. In my dough it most certainly is, and it makes a big difference. Olive oil does not caramelise.
    - roel_v 8y ago
      ... your dough caramelizes? How much sugar do you put in?
      - jazoom 8y ago
        Probably not as much as you're imagining. I like just a little bit of caramelisation.
- crispyambulance 8y ago
  That will work, but the best way to add crunch and color to crust is to steam it: https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/02/28/steam-in-bread-baking/ https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/02/28/steam-in-bread-b... You crank up your oven to very high (for most ovens that is ALL THE WAY), let it stabilize temperature for 40-60 minutes with an empty pan in the rack underneath where the bread goes. When the bread goes in, pour a cup of water into the pan. This will create steam in the early stages of cooking and promote good crust properties.
  - jazoom 8y ago
    Thanks for the link. It looks interesting. I look forward to reading it later. I'll probably still end up doing the extra sugar when I feel like that particular type of dough (usually thin ones) since it's a different type of crunch.

Jedd 8y ago

I think there's probably some cultural assumptions in your list. I tend to assume Neapolitan style when talking about pizza, but I know this is not the default for most people. That is - 450C (at least), cooking time under 90s, thin / crisp crust, with minimal toppings. In AU this is not hard to find, but there certainly are plenty of chain pizza restaurants that go for the heavy, piled-on, thick crust, 10 minutes to bake/boil. I gather in the US there are regions where the latter (Chicago perhaps?) is the default, but I'm not sure how common the genuine Neapolitan style is - in availability or popularity. Anyway, to your list -- if toppings are flowing at all, you've got too many toppings. You definitely do want high protein flour - at least 12%, or higher if you can find it. When I lived in the UK this meant imported Canadian flour as the domestic product simply couldn't do it. In AU it's hard to find much above 12%. If you need to cool your pizza for 2-5 minutes before cutting, it's too big. : ) Agreed on avoiding cheap (or rather, low-quality) ingredients. Less is more on toppings - but go for the most exquisitely flavoured varieties you can find. Sugar .. I think is not needed. Tomatoes are high in sugars, and good flour really shouldn't need the additional sugars for the yeast. If it's for flavour only, then I can't help.

maxerickson 8y ago
You are underestimating the peculiarity of Chicago style pizza. I would think you would be able to source vital wheat gluten.
Jupe 8y ago
I eat a lot of "vegetables" , so a pizza for me is a vehicle for savory vegetables... Onions, bell pepper, olives, etc. So "moating" is something I'm sensitive to. But, to each his own.
sgc 8y ago
They also import Manitoba flour in Italy to make pizza. High gluten is a must or it will just fall apart if it is the right thickness / cooked correctly. 90 seconds is faster than usual, but yes it is cooked fast. Neapolitan in Italy means thicker crust than other regions, but you are probably right that is what you are eating. Outside of Italy I am not sure many people would be able to recognize the difference.