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> When Trump says climate change is a Chinese hoax he knows he's lying, and you know he's lying, and accusing him of lying would be pointless and that's the poi

> When Trump says climate change is a Chinese hoax he knows he's lying, and you know he's lying, and accusing him of lying would be pointless and that's the point. That's hilarious-- you left out the one person who matters in your anecdote: the person who voted for Trump. I see no evidence that could lead you to assert that a Trump voter picked at random would know that Trump was lying about climate change being a hoax. On the flip side, I've seen a lot of Republican politicians, pundits, and op-ed writers for years repeat the assertion that climate change is a hoax. So many, in fact, that we're now calling it "climate change" instead of "global warming." Why? Because those same demagogues preyed on the layperson's confusion of weather and climate, repeatedly pointing out cold weather days as some kind of refutation of "global warming." Plus-- fucking climategate! What could possibly be the point of all the money and rhetoric poured into that phony controversy if not to actually convince people climate change is a hoax by muddying the waters? By positing this broad-- and frankly, untestable-- theory that a metaphysical Nietzshean breakdown is causing Trumpism you actually make it impossible to address the problem. And the problem is that millions of people really do believe something that isn't supported by the broad, overwhelming scientific evidence. That's a tractable-- if depressing-- problem which lies mainly in the disconnect between the primary research and the current portals through which laypeople attempt to learn what the primary research says (if at all). (Also in the low quality of U.S. public education.) > instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness. That way of thinking turns every single case of non-trivial politicking into a form of fascism. For example: was Jill Stein acting as a fascist when she quite shamelessly hedged on vaccination in order to pander to her anti-vaxxer base?

DanBC 8y ago
> that we're now calling it "climate change" instead of "global warming." Why? https://climate.nasa.gov/resources/global-warming/ https://climate.nasa.gov/resources/global-warming/ > Global warming > Global warming refers to the upward temperature trend across the entire Earth since the early 20th century, and most notably since the late 1970s, due to the increase in fossil fuel emissions since the industrial revolution. Worldwide since 1880, the average surface temperature has gone up by about 0.8 °C (1.4 °F), relative to the mid-20th-century baseline (of 1951-1980). > Climate change > Climate change refers to a broad range of global phenomena created predominantly by burning fossil fuels, which add heat-trapping gases to Earth’s atmosphere. These phenomena include the increased temperature trends described by global warming, but also encompass changes such as sea level rise; ice mass loss in Greenland, Antarctica, the Arctic and mountain glaciers worldwide; shifts in flower/plant blooming; and extreme weather events.
dnomad 8y ago
> I see no evidence that could lead you to assert that a Trump voter picked at random would know that Trump was lying about climate change being a hoax. Trump supporters know perfectly well that he's lying. There is clear evidence of this [1] if you're willing to look. If you want to see an even more banal example of this dynamic (though there are many) take a look at Hungary today where the most absurd pronouncements are made concerning "Soros" (read: the Jews) and then "clarified" sometimes just a few hours later. > And the problem is that millions of people really do believe something that isn't supported by the broad, overwhelming scientific evidence. The problem is impossible to address if you're willing to understand it. It is not the case that these people have been fooled by nefarious industrialists and politicians. The issue here is never about one or two erroneous beliefs that might be corrected with a bit more education. The problem is a culture that deliberately embraces fantasy and self-deception. All the evidence in the world will be dismissed and denied. If it becomes truly impossible to deny it they will turn and instantly settle on some new deception. The result of this process isn't confusion about a single issue but rather a whole imaginary world that is knowingly embraced. It's for this reason that one fantasy about the climate is always accompanied by a whole host of fantasies about everything from immigration to fluoride. > For example: was Jill Stein acting as a fascist when she quite shamelessly hedged on vaccination in order to pander to her anti-vaxxer base? As Nietzsche understood it individuals don't "act fascist" rather it's a sickness that attacks culture. A culture where politicians have to bend the knee to such nonsense is not healthy. I would hope this is obvious. [1] https://www.vox.com/2017/7/10/15928438/fact-checks-political-psychology https://www.vox.com/2017/7/10/15928438/fact-checks-political...

DanBC 8y ago

> that we're now calling it "climate change" instead of "global warming." Why? https://climate.nasa.gov/resources/global-warming/ https://climate.nasa.gov/resources/global-warming/ > Global warming > Global warming refers to the upward temperature trend across the entire Earth since the early 20th century, and most notably since the late 1970s, due to the increase in fossil fuel emissions since the industrial revolution. Worldwide since 1880, the average surface temperature has gone up by about 0.8 °C (1.4 °F), relative to the mid-20th-century baseline (of 1951-1980). > Climate change > Climate change refers to a broad range of global phenomena created predominantly by burning fossil fuels, which add heat-trapping gases to Earth’s atmosphere. These phenomena include the increased temperature trends described by global warming, but also encompass changes such as sea level rise; ice mass loss in Greenland, Antarctica, the Arctic and mountain glaciers worldwide; shifts in flower/plant blooming; and extreme weather events.

dnomad 8y ago

> I see no evidence that could lead you to assert that a Trump voter picked at random would know that Trump was lying about climate change being a hoax. Trump supporters know perfectly well that he's lying. There is clear evidence of this [1] if you're willing to look. If you want to see an even more banal example of this dynamic (though there are many) take a look at Hungary today where the most absurd pronouncements are made concerning "Soros" (read: the Jews) and then "clarified" sometimes just a few hours later. > And the problem is that millions of people really do believe something that isn't supported by the broad, overwhelming scientific evidence. The problem is impossible to address if you're willing to understand it. It is not the case that these people have been fooled by nefarious industrialists and politicians. The issue here is never about one or two erroneous beliefs that might be corrected with a bit more education. The problem is a culture that deliberately embraces fantasy and self-deception. All the evidence in the world will be dismissed and denied. If it becomes truly impossible to deny it they will turn and instantly settle on some new deception. The result of this process isn't confusion about a single issue but rather a whole imaginary world that is knowingly embraced. It's for this reason that one fantasy about the climate is always accompanied by a whole host of fantasies about everything from immigration to fluoride. > For example: was Jill Stein acting as a fascist when she quite shamelessly hedged on vaccination in order to pander to her anti-vaxxer base? As Nietzsche understood it individuals don't "act fascist" rather it's a sickness that attacks culture. A culture where politicians have to bend the knee to such nonsense is not healthy. I would hope this is obvious. [1] https://www.vox.com/2017/7/10/15928438/fact-checks-political-psychology https://www.vox.com/2017/7/10/15928438/fact-checks-political...