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Is there a way to determine which products use slavery and to what extent? Edit: https://knowthechain.org https://knowthechain.org might work. Don't drink Mons

by acover 8y ago

Is there a way to determine which products use slavery and to what extent? Edit: https://knowthechain.org https://knowthechain.org might work. Don't drink Monster.

noobermin 8y ago
I really get skeptical of attitudes like this. It's not enough to just make a conscious decision to not buy them yourself because it won't accomplish much. You need systemic change or significant pressure on the slave shops at the very least.
- dagss 8y ago
  Getting "systemic change or significant pressure" starts by individuals spreading awareness and campaigning politically, and determining what goods are produced using slave labor is a big part of that.
  - louithethrid 8y ago
    Maybee, that is part of a plan, that gets you nowhere. Because there is limited attention, a exaustion to campaigning and emotions. At some point, when all your actions result in evil- and none of the coices you make seem to put a dent into it- you just give up. I sincerely do no longer believe that the left can ever continue to exist after the cause of its existance has been obliberated.But like all movements, craving for power, this one wont die. So there will always be causes, always be marching, and the wretched of the earth will always wait invain for the help of the freedom front of judea.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  Perfect is the enemy of good. Individuals cannot effect systemic change, but they can reduce their own responsibility. In so doing, they might convince others to do so, which can effect systemic change. Changing individual behavior is concrete and demonstrable. It's also harder and requires more of a sacrifice, which is why people don't do it. On the other hand, effecting systemic change is ill-defined and hard to measure. It's a lot easier to attempt (and fail) a monolithic task with no skin in the game than it is to clean up your own side of the street.
- acover 8y ago
  I'm not trying to completely solve the problem. I'm trying to be less complicit in it. I'm thinking of the story of the English factory workers that refused to use the products of slave labor. It didn't stop slavery but they at least weren't complicit.
- musage 8y ago
  Even just doing it consciously, out of solidarity, and encouraging others, is a moral act that has inherent value for the individual doing it. If that's "not much" to you, then do more, but I don't see how it could be anything but hollow without that first step.
dssu 8y ago
Probably most products that you purchase and use. It's highly embedded in the global food, textile, and raw materials systems. Typically at the lowest levels. For example, Cobalt is a mineral that is used in virtually all batteries. The supply is heavily concentrated in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which notoriously utilizes slave and child labor to extract the mineral. Sure companies are trying to avoid slave extracted cobalt. However it is extremely difficult to do that. Slave operation A can just simply sell their product to Legitimate operation B and sneak into the supply chain. Some links on food / agricultural labor abuse: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/02/01/582214032/was-your-seafood-caught-with-slave-labor-new-database-helps-retailers-combat-abu https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/02/01/582214032/wa... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/28/426888946/beyond-brothels-farms-and-fisheries-are-frontier-of-human-trafficking https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/28/426888946/be... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/29/521971468/in-u-s-restaurants-bars-and-food-trucks-modern-slavery-persists https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/29/521971468/in... And you can find articles on the textile industry's labor abuse everywhere online. It's not a new concept. Most consumers like you and me benefit from this via cheaper prices, and will not stop consumption patterns.
- acover 8y ago
  I strongly suspect not all products are the same. Your second link has such a database. https://knowthechain.org https://knowthechain.org Thanks :)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

by acover 8y ago

Is there a way to determine which products use slavery and to what extent? Edit: https://knowthechain.org https://knowthechain.org might work. Don't drink Monster.

noobermin 8y ago

I really get skeptical of attitudes like this. It's not enough to just make a conscious decision to not buy them yourself because it won't accomplish much. You need systemic change or significant pressure on the slave shops at the very least.

dagss 8y ago
Getting "systemic change or significant pressure" starts by individuals spreading awareness and campaigning politically, and determining what goods are produced using slave labor is a big part of that.
- louithethrid 8y ago
  Maybee, that is part of a plan, that gets you nowhere. Because there is limited attention, a exaustion to campaigning and emotions. At some point, when all your actions result in evil- and none of the coices you make seem to put a dent into it- you just give up. I sincerely do no longer believe that the left can ever continue to exist after the cause of its existance has been obliberated.But like all movements, craving for power, this one wont die. So there will always be causes, always be marching, and the wretched of the earth will always wait invain for the help of the freedom front of judea.
throwawaymath 8y ago
Perfect is the enemy of good. Individuals cannot effect systemic change, but they can reduce their own responsibility. In so doing, they might convince others to do so, which can effect systemic change. Changing individual behavior is concrete and demonstrable. It's also harder and requires more of a sacrifice, which is why people don't do it. On the other hand, effecting systemic change is ill-defined and hard to measure. It's a lot easier to attempt (and fail) a monolithic task with no skin in the game than it is to clean up your own side of the street.
acover 8y ago
I'm not trying to completely solve the problem. I'm trying to be less complicit in it. I'm thinking of the story of the English factory workers that refused to use the products of slave labor. It didn't stop slavery but they at least weren't complicit.
musage 8y ago
Even just doing it consciously, out of solidarity, and encouraging others, is a moral act that has inherent value for the individual doing it. If that's "not much" to you, then do more, but I don't see how it could be anything but hollow without that first step.

dssu 8y ago

Probably most products that you purchase and use. It's highly embedded in the global food, textile, and raw materials systems. Typically at the lowest levels. For example, Cobalt is a mineral that is used in virtually all batteries. The supply is heavily concentrated in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which notoriously utilizes slave and child labor to extract the mineral. Sure companies are trying to avoid slave extracted cobalt. However it is extremely difficult to do that. Slave operation A can just simply sell their product to Legitimate operation B and sneak into the supply chain. Some links on food / agricultural labor abuse: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/02/01/582214032/was-your-seafood-caught-with-slave-labor-new-database-helps-retailers-combat-abu https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/02/01/582214032/wa... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/28/426888946/beyond-brothels-farms-and-fisheries-are-frontier-of-human-trafficking https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/28/426888946/be... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/29/521971468/in-u-s-restaurants-bars-and-food-trucks-modern-slavery-persists https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/29/521971468/in... And you can find articles on the textile industry's labor abuse everywhere online. It's not a new concept. Most consumers like you and me benefit from this via cheaper prices, and will not stop consumption patterns.

acover 8y ago
I strongly suspect not all products are the same. Your second link has such a database. https://knowthechain.org https://knowthechain.org Thanks :)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]