5 ms·

There's a big difference in active and passive screen time. I got into computers in the early 90s and back then there was always a certain hands on aspect to it

There's a big difference in active and passive screen time. I got into computers in the early 90s and back then there was always a certain hands on aspect to it. From installing RAM to clearing drive space or making custom boot disks... Games actually thought me a lot! Now... Not so much. Much of the hardware is locked, nevermind the software. So kids get to thinking they can't make anything, that it's a primarily passive experience. To me, that's the big problem, to become passionate about passiveness. For the record my 5 year old runs KDE on a fanless laptop. It's been great for him to learn letters at school

robbrown451 8y ago
I agree except for the idea that hardware and software being locked somehow prevents creative activities. If you want to do programming, you can do a huge amount just using browser APIs (and that is kind of nice because it is very easy to share what you do by sending people a link). You can do graphics (canvas, svg, webgl), audio, and so many other things. But to use a computer creatively you don't have to be a programmer. You can use paint programs, 3d modeling programs, music programs such as DAWs, word processors/text editors for writing, and a huge number of other kinds of software that allow non-passive, creative activities. The problem, as I see it, is that so many passive things are available too, and many are very attractive to kids.
- thomastjeffery 8y ago
  Three problem with locked-down software and hardware is that it is the environment. An immutable environment leaves no room for creativity. Sure, you can go find an open environment, but when I was growing up, I was already there; and that made all the difference. I didn't need a mentor to introduce me. I was free to stumble into the world of software via my own interests.
  - wilsonnb2 8y ago
    That's just not true. Plenty of creativity is available in immutable environments. Working around limitations is a key factor of creativity in my opinion.
    - thomastjeffery 8y ago
      Sure, but it's a different kind of creativity. The limitations are arbitrary and nearly impossible to get around. Computers, especially smart phones, tablets, etc. are being treated less as property of the buyer and more as property of the seller/manufacturer. For example: When it is very difficult to unlock a bootloader, then most people do not find it interesting to try other operating systems. Very few are more creative, and the rest are just prevented from exploring/learning/creating just because they have the wrong device.
      - robbrown451 8y ago
        The kinds of creativity that are allowed are far more relevant to the question of kids and attention and the effect of electronic devices. My four year old has a chromebook, which she uses for a lot of things (of which watching inane videos on YouTube would be her default if I didn't intervene regularly to point her to better stuff). She'll probably be coding by the time she is 8, but she mostly does graphics and music now (for instance, she uses piano-karaoke software I developed that runs in Chrome on most any device). The "unlocking the bootloader" issue hasn't cropped up yet, but maybe I would be more frustrated if we had an iOS instead of chromeOS, Android and MacOS devices.
        thomastjeffery 8y ago
        These limitations aren't constrained to toddlers. I have met plenty of teenagers who are stuck with similar devices. This is a problem that has been somewhat avoided in the Android ecosystem, but the trend is definitely negative.

robbrown451 8y ago

I agree except for the idea that hardware and software being locked somehow prevents creative activities. If you want to do programming, you can do a huge amount just using browser APIs (and that is kind of nice because it is very easy to share what you do by sending people a link). You can do graphics (canvas, svg, webgl), audio, and so many other things. But to use a computer creatively you don't have to be a programmer. You can use paint programs, 3d modeling programs, music programs such as DAWs, word processors/text editors for writing, and a huge number of other kinds of software that allow non-passive, creative activities. The problem, as I see it, is that so many passive things are available too, and many are very attractive to kids.

thomastjeffery 8y ago
Three problem with locked-down software and hardware is that it is the environment. An immutable environment leaves no room for creativity. Sure, you can go find an open environment, but when I was growing up, I was already there; and that made all the difference. I didn't need a mentor to introduce me. I was free to stumble into the world of software via my own interests.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  That's just not true. Plenty of creativity is available in immutable environments. Working around limitations is a key factor of creativity in my opinion.
  - thomastjeffery 8y ago
    Sure, but it's a different kind of creativity. The limitations are arbitrary and nearly impossible to get around. Computers, especially smart phones, tablets, etc. are being treated less as property of the buyer and more as property of the seller/manufacturer. For example: When it is very difficult to unlock a bootloader, then most people do not find it interesting to try other operating systems. Very few are more creative, and the rest are just prevented from exploring/learning/creating just because they have the wrong device.
    - robbrown451 8y ago
      The kinds of creativity that are allowed are far more relevant to the question of kids and attention and the effect of electronic devices. My four year old has a chromebook, which she uses for a lot of things (of which watching inane videos on YouTube would be her default if I didn't intervene regularly to point her to better stuff). She'll probably be coding by the time she is 8, but she mostly does graphics and music now (for instance, she uses piano-karaoke software I developed that runs in Chrome on most any device). The "unlocking the bootloader" issue hasn't cropped up yet, but maybe I would be more frustrated if we had an iOS instead of chromeOS, Android and MacOS devices.
      - thomastjeffery 8y ago
        These limitations aren't constrained to toddlers. I have met plenty of teenagers who are stuck with similar devices. This is a problem that has been somewhat avoided in the Android ecosystem, but the trend is definitely negative.