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Interesting take, but I'm not sure I buy it. I certainly don't feel like I get ~2.5x more utility from my current iPhone than I did from the smartphone I purcha

Interesting take, but I'm not sure I buy it. I certainly don't feel like I get ~2.5x more utility from my current iPhone than I did from the smartphone I purchased in 2012, which was just as fast (on the software of the time) and had most of the same functionality. I'd also be curious as to how you were able to conclude that the so-called "fashion effect" is not supported by evidence.

madengr 8y ago
Things have gotten worse in some respects. Computers get more and more locked down with corporate security bullshit, it becomes harder to get any work done. Remember when you could quickly FTP a file, toss up a web page, email someone a zipped file. Can’t do any of that now without jumping through hoops. Computers have become very slow for tasks that used to be fast. Everyone always seems to “waiting on the computer”; that’s screwed up. It should be the other way around.
- noonespecial 8y ago
  >Remember when you could quickly FTP a file, toss up a web page, email someone a zipped file. Can’t do any of that now without jumping through hoops. Oh I remember all right. I've spent weeks of my life yelling into a phone "no PASV. You have to find where it says PASV and check it" Toss up a web page? On what, Geocities? (back to the ftp thing are we?) Email a file? Great. I hope its less than 2mb or it might just vanish somewhere along the way... Dropbox. Wordpress. Slack. This stuff is 100x better for the average user than a decade ago. 1000x better than 2 decades ago. The real trouble is all of this means just about nothing when you're afraid to go to the doctor because your deductible is more than a decent used car.
GatorD42 8y ago
How much would you pay for a brand new iPhone 5 (the iPhone new in 2012) that looked exactly like an iPhone X and was indistinguishable by anyone else? If it's less than the price you would pay for a real iPhone X that price difference is because of quality improvement and not fashion. There are more rigorous ways to account for the fashion effect, but this thought experiment shouldshow that a significant part of the price difference is because of quality improvements.
- tfehring 8y ago
  I'd probably be willing to pay more than 41% (the 16%/year discount taken from your article, compounded for 6 years) but less than 100%, which implies that your conclusion overstates the value (to me in particular) of quality improvements during that time. Of course, I don't actually have the option to get the same experience from an iPhone 5 today that I could have 6 years ago. As an alternative, consider a budget Android smartphone manufactured today. It's possible to spend significantly less than 41% of the price of an iPhone X (or an iPhone 8, for that matter) for a device whose quality is, I suspect, better in every way than an iPhone 5. If 16%/year is taken as the true rate of quality improvement, doesn't that imply that the fashion effect has an impact on consumers who continue to purchase iPhones?
  - GatorD42 8y ago
    I didn’t word the hypothetical that well. A better way to think about it would be a brand new iPhone 5 that to you looked and felt like an iPhone 5, but magically appeared like an iPhone X to everyone else. The “fashion effect” is the zero sum feeling someone has from having the latest version of a product. The actually dimensions / screen size and screen to body ratio of the iPhone X are actually technical improvements. My argument is people would not pay that much for an iPhone 5 that looked like an X to other people and hence conferred its status. If people really were willing to pay close to the price of the X in such a situation it would be an argument that the fashion effect plays a significant role. I don’t deny it has some influence, only that technical improvements are the main influence of prices. If you are still willing to pay more than 41% of the price of an iPhone X for an iPhone 5 that everyone thought was a X, I think that would make you pretty unusual. Used versions of the iPhone 5 seem to be going for under $100 on eBay. Even assuming a discount for new vs used, that would mean you value the iPhone 5 about $200-300 more than a typical eBay buyer. In response to your Android hypothetical I would argue that Android phones have advanced more rapidly than iPhones over the past 5+ years, and that there is some system lock in. Also I don’t really want to get into the quality debate in this area, though I would note that Android phones exhibit year over year price depreciation similar to iPhones.
    - 8y ago
egypturnash 8y ago
Honestly I’m not sure I really get 2.5 more utility from my current phone than from the Handspring Visor I carried around in the early Naughties. Not having to slide on an external box with its own pack of four AA batteries to have GPS is nice I guess.
dnautics 8y ago
some people might get less utility or, more relevantly to this article, less productivity, due to being distracted by it.

madengr 8y ago

Things have gotten worse in some respects. Computers get more and more locked down with corporate security bullshit, it becomes harder to get any work done. Remember when you could quickly FTP a file, toss up a web page, email someone a zipped file. Can’t do any of that now without jumping through hoops. Computers have become very slow for tasks that used to be fast. Everyone always seems to “waiting on the computer”; that’s screwed up. It should be the other way around.

noonespecial 8y ago
>Remember when you could quickly FTP a file, toss up a web page, email someone a zipped file. Can’t do any of that now without jumping through hoops. Oh I remember all right. I've spent weeks of my life yelling into a phone "no PASV. You have to find where it says PASV and check it" Toss up a web page? On what, Geocities? (back to the ftp thing are we?) Email a file? Great. I hope its less than 2mb or it might just vanish somewhere along the way... Dropbox. Wordpress. Slack. This stuff is 100x better for the average user than a decade ago. 1000x better than 2 decades ago. The real trouble is all of this means just about nothing when you're afraid to go to the doctor because your deductible is more than a decent used car.

GatorD42 8y ago

How much would you pay for a brand new iPhone 5 (the iPhone new in 2012) that looked exactly like an iPhone X and was indistinguishable by anyone else? If it's less than the price you would pay for a real iPhone X that price difference is because of quality improvement and not fashion. There are more rigorous ways to account for the fashion effect, but this thought experiment shouldshow that a significant part of the price difference is because of quality improvements.

tfehring 8y ago
I'd probably be willing to pay more than 41% (the 16%/year discount taken from your article, compounded for 6 years) but less than 100%, which implies that your conclusion overstates the value (to me in particular) of quality improvements during that time. Of course, I don't actually have the option to get the same experience from an iPhone 5 today that I could have 6 years ago. As an alternative, consider a budget Android smartphone manufactured today. It's possible to spend significantly less than 41% of the price of an iPhone X (or an iPhone 8, for that matter) for a device whose quality is, I suspect, better in every way than an iPhone 5. If 16%/year is taken as the true rate of quality improvement, doesn't that imply that the fashion effect has an impact on consumers who continue to purchase iPhones?
- GatorD42 8y ago
  I didn’t word the hypothetical that well. A better way to think about it would be a brand new iPhone 5 that to you looked and felt like an iPhone 5, but magically appeared like an iPhone X to everyone else. The “fashion effect” is the zero sum feeling someone has from having the latest version of a product. The actually dimensions / screen size and screen to body ratio of the iPhone X are actually technical improvements. My argument is people would not pay that much for an iPhone 5 that looked like an X to other people and hence conferred its status. If people really were willing to pay close to the price of the X in such a situation it would be an argument that the fashion effect plays a significant role. I don’t deny it has some influence, only that technical improvements are the main influence of prices. If you are still willing to pay more than 41% of the price of an iPhone X for an iPhone 5 that everyone thought was a X, I think that would make you pretty unusual. Used versions of the iPhone 5 seem to be going for under $100 on eBay. Even assuming a discount for new vs used, that would mean you value the iPhone 5 about $200-300 more than a typical eBay buyer. In response to your Android hypothetical I would argue that Android phones have advanced more rapidly than iPhones over the past 5+ years, and that there is some system lock in. Also I don’t really want to get into the quality debate in this area, though I would note that Android phones exhibit year over year price depreciation similar to iPhones.
  - 8y ago

egypturnash 8y ago

Honestly I’m not sure I really get 2.5 more utility from my current phone than from the Handspring Visor I carried around in the early Naughties. Not having to slide on an external box with its own pack of four AA batteries to have GPS is nice I guess.

dnautics 8y ago

some people might get less utility or, more relevantly to this article, less productivity, due to being distracted by it.