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Killing a child, or any conscious being willing to live, cannot be compared to terminating a pregnancy at a point where the embryo is just a blob of cells with

Killing a child, or any conscious being willing to live, cannot be compared to terminating a pregnancy at a point where the embryo is just a blob of cells with no global survival instinct and consciousness whatsoever (just basic biochemistry-powered defensive reactions at cellular level). It's ridiculous making such mental gymnastics to stretch this article in order to blame "the West".

jeffdavis 8y ago
At what point is a child imbued with consciousness and a will to live? Who should be responsible for that determination?
- mercutio2 8y ago
  The mother.
  - jeffdavis 8y ago
    Until what age? Birth? 1 year old? 18? 80?
- arkades 8y ago
  While the line drawing fallacy certainly comes into play here, one can with some confidence say that /before a single neuron is formed/ is most certainly a safe spot to point at and say “not yet.”
  - jeffdavis 8y ago
    I didn't quickly find a definitive answer about the time the first neuron forms, but some brief searching around seems to indicate the neurons are already assembling into complex structures before 5 weeks. So it seems like development of the first neuron would be well before that, and not a very practically-useful line. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_bra...
cdoxsey 8y ago
I used the phrase "the West" because the practice happens in the US, but is more common in Europe. The analogy stems from an instrumentalist view of what it means to be human and the expectations parents have that children are for their own pleasure. IE: a down syndrome life isn't worth living because such a person can't be a meaningfully productive member of society, or a down syndrome child isn't one I want to have because of the long-term burden I will have to bear. It's not mental gymnastics to make that connection. The only reason it isn't obvious is because abortion is a taboo subject. FWIW a 10 week old fetus is a lot more than a "blob of cells": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivegxcp2Bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivegxcp2Bk .
- rbanffy 8y ago
  While a 10 week old fetus is not a blob of cells, having some major structures forming and hinting at their definitive shape, the brain is still very little more than autonomic functions. Also, there are a multitude of reasons why a couple would want to terminate a pregnancy for a genetic anomaly, from the social burden to the financial burden or the notion that their child with a congenital condition will not lead a life they deem worth living. At this point, when the fetus is not a person just yet, it's their choice to make. Would you have a child knowing they'd be condemned to a premature and painful death?

jeffdavis 8y ago

At what point is a child imbued with consciousness and a will to live? Who should be responsible for that determination?

mercutio2 8y ago
The mother.
- jeffdavis 8y ago
  Until what age? Birth? 1 year old? 18? 80?
arkades 8y ago
While the line drawing fallacy certainly comes into play here, one can with some confidence say that /before a single neuron is formed/ is most certainly a safe spot to point at and say “not yet.”
- jeffdavis 8y ago
  I didn't quickly find a definitive answer about the time the first neuron forms, but some brief searching around seems to indicate the neurons are already assembling into complex structures before 5 weeks. So it seems like development of the first neuron would be well before that, and not a very practically-useful line. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_bra...

cdoxsey 8y ago

I used the phrase "the West" because the practice happens in the US, but is more common in Europe. The analogy stems from an instrumentalist view of what it means to be human and the expectations parents have that children are for their own pleasure. IE: a down syndrome life isn't worth living because such a person can't be a meaningfully productive member of society, or a down syndrome child isn't one I want to have because of the long-term burden I will have to bear. It's not mental gymnastics to make that connection. The only reason it isn't obvious is because abortion is a taboo subject. FWIW a 10 week old fetus is a lot more than a "blob of cells": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivegxcp2Bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivegxcp2Bk .

rbanffy 8y ago
While a 10 week old fetus is not a blob of cells, having some major structures forming and hinting at their definitive shape, the brain is still very little more than autonomic functions. Also, there are a multitude of reasons why a couple would want to terminate a pregnancy for a genetic anomaly, from the social burden to the financial burden or the notion that their child with a congenital condition will not lead a life they deem worth living. At this point, when the fetus is not a person just yet, it's their choice to make. Would you have a child knowing they'd be condemned to a premature and painful death?