4 ms·

This reminds me of the famous Leary vs. Lettvin debate (1967): https://youtu.be/Gq3Fp-xp0l0 https://youtu.be/Gq3Fp-xp0l0 For the brochure version: http://www.s

by V-2 8y ago

This reminds me of the famous Leary vs. Lettvin debate (1967): https://youtu.be/Gq3Fp-xp0l0 https://youtu.be/Gq3Fp-xp0l0 For the brochure version: http://www.swt.org/oshare/Lettvin-Leary/Lettvin-Leary-LSD-Debate-Merged-OCR.pdf http://www.swt.org/oshare/Lettvin-Leary/Lettvin-Leary-LSD-De... Leary's sitting in the lotus position was always a red flag to me ;) I don't advocate a prohibition at all, but I think there's something wrong with attempting to conceive some sort of an ideology to back up the drug use. Lettvin's point - "but the problem is whether the navel really replaces TV" - still stands ;)

toomanybeersies 8y ago
Speaking of Leary, this quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas [1] basically sums up my opinion and sentiment above: > All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create... > ...a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody-or at least some force-is tending the Light at the end of the tunnel... > ... This is the same cruel and paradoxically benevolent bullshit has kept the Catholic Church going for so many centuries. I think that HST had the right idea. He was under no illusion that drugs were just a bunch of fun and that life was a carnival. Of course, the man killed himself at 67, so I don't know if he's a great role model. In fact, he's no better than Leary, he just went over the deep end of hedonism instead. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/453917-we-are-all-wired-into-a-survival-trip-now-no https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/453917-we-are-all-wired-int...
- robotbikes 8y ago
  But LSD was also used heavily by people who went on to become the visionaries of the computer revolution that we are all utilizing to discuss this topic. Steve Jobs being one of the most notable but there were others documented in the book what the domouse said https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/725789.What_the_Dormouse_Said https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/725789.What_the_Dormouse...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pmoriarty 8y ago
"there's something wrong with attempting to conceive some sort of an ideology to back up the drug use" Could it be that there's something wrong with not having one? Most traditional societies with long histories of psychedelic use have some sort of ideology or framework in which to fit and to interpret the psychedelic experience. This is used to guide and structure the experience, and it could be argued that it's precisely when such a framework is lacking that all sorts of problems start to occur for many users of these substances -- they are thrown back on their own devices for interpretation of the experience, and many of them are incapable of doing so constructively. Our own society is really just in its infancy in trying to integrate psychedelic use in a constructive, helpful manner. Psychedelic use in a sacred context is one approch that some people are trying, psychedelic use in a medical or therapeutic context is another. The jury is still out on which of those is better. Maybe none of them is. Perhaps in the future we'll find an even better one.

by V-2 8y ago

toomanybeersies 8y ago

Speaking of Leary, this quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas [1] basically sums up my opinion and sentiment above: > All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create... > ...a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody-or at least some force-is tending the Light at the end of the tunnel... > ... This is the same cruel and paradoxically benevolent bullshit has kept the Catholic Church going for so many centuries. I think that HST had the right idea. He was under no illusion that drugs were just a bunch of fun and that life was a carnival. Of course, the man killed himself at 67, so I don't know if he's a great role model. In fact, he's no better than Leary, he just went over the deep end of hedonism instead. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/453917-we-are-all-wired-into-a-survival-trip-now-no https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/453917-we-are-all-wired-int...

robotbikes 8y ago
But LSD was also used heavily by people who went on to become the visionaries of the computer revolution that we are all utilizing to discuss this topic. Steve Jobs being one of the most notable but there were others documented in the book what the domouse said https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/725789.What_the_Dormouse_Said https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/725789.What_the_Dormouse...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pmoriarty 8y ago

"there's something wrong with attempting to conceive some sort of an ideology to back up the drug use" Could it be that there's something wrong with not having one? Most traditional societies with long histories of psychedelic use have some sort of ideology or framework in which to fit and to interpret the psychedelic experience. This is used to guide and structure the experience, and it could be argued that it's precisely when such a framework is lacking that all sorts of problems start to occur for many users of these substances -- they are thrown back on their own devices for interpretation of the experience, and many of them are incapable of doing so constructively. Our own society is really just in its infancy in trying to integrate psychedelic use in a constructive, helpful manner. Psychedelic use in a sacred context is one approch that some people are trying, psychedelic use in a medical or therapeutic context is another. The jury is still out on which of those is better. Maybe none of them is. Perhaps in the future we'll find an even better one.