4 ms·

The West does this with down syndrome. In the UK apparently 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated. (see https://www.washingt

The West does this with down syndrome. In the UK apparently 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated. (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-wouldve-aborted-a-fetus-with-down-syndrome-women-need-that-right/2018/03/09/3aaac364-23d6-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-wouldve-aborted-a-... for example)

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tomohawk 8y ago
It's easier to judge small tribes as being backwards than to look at ourselves and see the backwardness, and that we're really not any different.
- minipci1321 8y ago
  Just how on Earth have you inferred this statement from the OP or from the parent's comment? Have you read either?
  - yodon 8y ago
    The HN guidelines [0] are actually a remarkably good set of principles for online discussion of challenging topics. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something ... Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that.” ... Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. The standard of care each of us puts into each of our own responses is what makes HN-quality conversations possible or impossible. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
AlexAltea 8y ago
Killing a child, or any conscious being willing to live, cannot be compared to terminating a pregnancy at a point where the embryo is just a blob of cells with no global survival instinct and consciousness whatsoever (just basic biochemistry-powered defensive reactions at cellular level). It's ridiculous making such mental gymnastics to stretch this article in order to blame "the West".
- jeffdavis 8y ago
  At what point is a child imbued with consciousness and a will to live? Who should be responsible for that determination?
  - mercutio2 8y ago
    The mother.
    - jeffdavis 8y ago
      Until what age? Birth? 1 year old? 18? 80?
  - arkades 8y ago
    While the line drawing fallacy certainly comes into play here, one can with some confidence say that /before a single neuron is formed/ is most certainly a safe spot to point at and say “not yet.”
    - jeffdavis 8y ago
      I didn't quickly find a definitive answer about the time the first neuron forms, but some brief searching around seems to indicate the neurons are already assembling into complex structures before 5 weeks. So it seems like development of the first neuron would be well before that, and not a very practically-useful line. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_bra...
- 8y ago
mmagin 8y ago
At least be honest that you are implicitly stating an opinion that abortion at 9-15 weeks is equivalent to infanticide.
Kenji 8y ago
You're just comparing abortion with burning a 12 year old boy alive. I think you might want to work on your anti-abortion point a bit before you are able to convince people.
asdgionio 8y ago
I actually do see a parallel, but it's the opposite of the one you're talking about. Refusing to abort a fetus with Down syndrome comes from the same sort of squeamishness and relativism as refusing to condemn an indigenous culture. It is condemning people to suffer out of some misguided attempt to be understanding and compassionate. It is an overreaction to horrors of the past. It is combating arrogance and elitism with relativism. Refusing to say that people with Down syndrome shouldn't be born is similar to refusing to admit that some cultures should be destroyed. Maybe that's a stretch. But you actually bring up a good alternative: abortion. We can easily detect some of these situations (single mothers, twins, and certain disabilities) early in pregnancy. Maybe offering abortions would discourage killing children?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

tomohawk 8y ago

It's easier to judge small tribes as being backwards than to look at ourselves and see the backwardness, and that we're really not any different.

minipci1321 8y ago
Just how on Earth have you inferred this statement from the OP or from the parent's comment? Have you read either?
- yodon 8y ago
  The HN guidelines [0] are actually a remarkably good set of principles for online discussion of challenging topics. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something ... Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that.” ... Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. The standard of care each of us puts into each of our own responses is what makes HN-quality conversations possible or impossible. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

AlexAltea 8y ago

Killing a child, or any conscious being willing to live, cannot be compared to terminating a pregnancy at a point where the embryo is just a blob of cells with no global survival instinct and consciousness whatsoever (just basic biochemistry-powered defensive reactions at cellular level). It's ridiculous making such mental gymnastics to stretch this article in order to blame "the West".

jeffdavis 8y ago
At what point is a child imbued with consciousness and a will to live? Who should be responsible for that determination?
- mercutio2 8y ago
  The mother.
  - jeffdavis 8y ago
    Until what age? Birth? 1 year old? 18? 80?
- arkades 8y ago
  While the line drawing fallacy certainly comes into play here, one can with some confidence say that /before a single neuron is formed/ is most certainly a safe spot to point at and say “not yet.”
  - jeffdavis 8y ago
    I didn't quickly find a definitive answer about the time the first neuron forms, but some brief searching around seems to indicate the neurons are already assembling into complex structures before 5 weeks. So it seems like development of the first neuron would be well before that, and not a very practically-useful line. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_bra...
8y ago

mmagin 8y ago

At least be honest that you are implicitly stating an opinion that abortion at 9-15 weeks is equivalent to infanticide.

Kenji 8y ago

You're just comparing abortion with burning a 12 year old boy alive. I think you might want to work on your anti-abortion point a bit before you are able to convince people.

asdgionio 8y ago

I actually do see a parallel, but it's the opposite of the one you're talking about. Refusing to abort a fetus with Down syndrome comes from the same sort of squeamishness and relativism as refusing to condemn an indigenous culture. It is condemning people to suffer out of some misguided attempt to be understanding and compassionate. It is an overreaction to horrors of the past. It is combating arrogance and elitism with relativism. Refusing to say that people with Down syndrome shouldn't be born is similar to refusing to admit that some cultures should be destroyed. Maybe that's a stretch. But you actually bring up a good alternative: abortion. We can easily detect some of these situations (single mothers, twins, and certain disabilities) early in pregnancy. Maybe offering abortions would discourage killing children?