11 ms·

Why I use the IBM Model M keyboard that is older than me

152 points by yeokm1 8y ago

NVRM 8y ago
In the era of RGB keyboard, coming back to a non illuminated one would feels really broken. Luminance and typing effects really helps to type faster. After tested a bunch of them, I stick to a Corsair k70 cherry mx brown for programming, not much downside, just deliberately noisy. Ear that: https://youtu.be/op_9KodHoYA?t=39 https://youtu.be/op_9KodHoYA?t=39
safgasCVS 8y ago
I make a big deal about my keyboard because my work and life are completely mediocre so I need something else to make me feel special without actually putting in any actual effort. I also have strong opinions about design, coffee, movies or pretty much anything that can be consumed without effort.
mclemme 8y ago
Brings back memories! I learned touch typing using two IBM Model M keyboards that my friends dad got from some bank office he was hired to clear out (the bank had closed, I think he drove half a trailer filled with those keyboards to the recycling center, would probably be worth quite a bit today!) I took two, spray painted one black and switched over every second keycap so I had two keyboards with every 2nd key completely black. Today I use a Logitech G413 mechanical keyboard at work, it's descent, but I still miss the old battle-tank Model M sometimes :)
magoon 8y ago
Having started typing on IBM keyboards before the Model M, and eventually struggling to adapt to non-“mechanical” keyboards, it’s now hard for me to understand why people want to use them. I didn’t want to go to the “soft” laptop keyboards but learned to love them. It turns out the springs on the loud keyboards caused me a lot of repetitive stress discomfort and actually slowed down my typing.
- zerr 8y ago
  There are lots of different type of mechanical switches, maybe you need to find the right one? Many are soft and/or silent, if that's your thing.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  I'm in the middle camp: I have two Das keyboards, and I like them a lot, but I don't have a problem using my Dell laptop's (or my Mac book's) keyboard either. I don't see what all the fuss is about, both types seem about as comfortable to me.
  - Drdrdrq 8y ago
    I bought Das because I thought I wanted a better keyboard and remembered that back in the day I loved my mechanical "click" keyboard. It turns out I was wrong. The (brown) switches were waaay too loud for my (and my coworkers') taste and the quality of build was simply appaling given their price tag. Not totally bad, but worse than any "normal" Logitech kbd. I got rid of it after ~5 months.
    - bluesroo 8y ago
      So this wouldn't work with blues, but for browns, blacks, and reds you can always get O-rings to put under the keys. In college I played lots of video games late at night while my roommate was sleeping and once I installed O-rings on my MX reds he never had issues again.
      - Drdrdrq 8y ago
        Cool, didn't know that. Is the feeling any different? Anyway, that keyboard is gone and I am never buying one based on reviews only again. :)
        __blockcipher__ 8y ago
        The feeling is a little less fun, but still better than a normal keyboard. Disclosure: I’m not the one you responded to
arendtio 8y ago
Some people might be interested in 'Das Keyboard' (German for 'The Keyboard'): https://www.daskeyboard.com https://www.daskeyboard.com
- danial 8y ago
  I have the Model S Professional [1] and very happy with it. It's the Clicky - MX Blue and was a gift from someone who I shared an office with. I think they weren't too happy about how loud it was. Thankfully, I now work in my own office so I don't have to worry about it being loud. [1] https://shop.daskeyboard.com/products/das-keyboard-professional-model-s https://shop.daskeyboard.com/products/das-keyboard-professio...
- rootbear 8y ago
  I have several of their keyboards and love them. For a while, they were using Chinese copies of Cherry keys and those weren't as good, so I always make sure I get a model with Cherry keys. My reason for preferring mechanical keyboards is due to spinal nerve damage I have as a result of a dual disk fusion some years ago. I have limited sensation in over half of my fingers and the additional tactile and audio feedback of a mechanical keyboard makes a real difference. I tried one of the current MacBooks in the Apple store and it was awful. There is far too little feedback for my damaged hands. I use my current 2014 MacBook with an external Das Keyboard normally, but it is usable when I take it on the road. I'm not convinced that would be the case with the current MacBooks. Not to pick on Apple too much, the standard throwaway mushboards that come with the Dell systems at work are similarly unusable for me.
- allendoerfer 8y ago
  German for "The Keyboard" is "die Tastatur". In German the word "das Keyboard" refers to the musical instrument.
- mcculley 8y ago
  I have bought several of these for myself and my staff. They are great and I highly recommend them. (This comment was typed on one.)
- 8y ago
jacksmith21006 8y ago
I have also have one and gave it to my son who wanted it. It has the old connector. Found out after giving it to him they are valuable. But NOT older than me. I am old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Do you mean a PS/2 connector, or a five pin DIN? Or even one of the earlier connectors; I had an IBM keyboard once that was something I can only imagine predated the 5 pin DIN. PS/2 to five pin DIN (and vice-versa) was easy enough, but I never did get that keyboard connected to anything. I'm typing this on a Model M I picked up from my keyboard corner just now. As I recall, this one doesn't work well; pretty soon, it will stop registering some keypresses. Never have been able to work out why :/
ScarZy 8y ago
I was lucky enough to bag one of these on eBay 10 years ago, someone was selling a god awful computer and I asked if I could just take the keyboard for a vintage computing project. Cost me 10 pounds. I bolt modded it, but eventually sold it as I wanted to fund my HHKB addiction which is a solid keyboard, just more portable than a Model M Thankfully, a friend gave me another Model M recently, and it's now awaiting a clean and a cable
bitL 8y ago
If you don't like those "yellowish" keys, get some peroxide cream, put a layer over all yellowish surfaces and leave it on the sun for a few days, applying more cream if needed. You'll get them back to normal ;-) I've recently "resurrected" my old Creative Prodikeys that way. Applies to any older yellowish plastic stuff, e.g. you want your retro Amiga 500 to look good again etc.
- georgyo 8y ago
  Do you have some before and after pictures?
  - TomNomNom 8y ago
    The 8-Bit Guy has a fantastic video on YouTube comparing a few different methods of restoring yellowed plastic, including the peroxide in the sun method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY :)
    - globuous 8y ago
      Damn, that was a really cool video !! Here's a link to his results for keyboard keys (they all initially looked like the control key): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=780 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=780 and for an computer case (essentially everything was as brown as that rectangle you can see): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=1120 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=1120
eej71 8y ago
Unicomp (http://www.pckeyboard.com/ http://www.pckeyboard.com/) is a great source for the IBM Model M style keyboards.
- mcculley 8y ago
  I bought a keyboard from Unicomp hoping to get something as great as the Model M. It arrived with keycaps popped off during shipping and failed not long after that (https://twitter.com/mcculley/status/659798006208856064 https://twitter.com/mcculley/status/659798006208856064). I have since bought several Das Keyboards for myself and my staff. I love them. Of course, we have private offices. I would not advise using these great keyboards in open floor plan offices or coworking spaces.
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    Interesting! I bought one a few years ago, and other than slightly cheaper plastic extrusion, I can’t tell that there’s anything worse about this than a classic Model M. To your second point, when it came time to get a mechanical keyboard for a open plan office, I bought a firm, but non-clacky Cherry switch keyboard. I quite like feel of it... there’s something satisfying about the Unicomp / Model M, but I can’t help but think the actual typing experience of the Rosewill generic Cherry keyboard isn’t a bit better.
  - michaelcampbell 8y ago
    > I would not advise using these great keyboards in open floor plan offices or coworking spaces. That says more about having open floor offices than having to restrict personal use of the single most important input device in many offices.
    - mcculley 8y ago
      I agree. That’s why I favor real offices for doing real work. Still, I occasionally work in close proximity to others. I would not bring along one of these keyboards to such situations and suffer along with my laptop keyboard.
    - 8y ago
y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago
I don't understand why so many people are in love with the Model M. I used one for nearly 3 years before switching to a Cherry MX blue keyboard. After using a modern mechanical keyboard, I would never switch back to a Model M. Probably because of time, on the Model M every key has a different feeling. You never know where the activation point of the key is, because it is a little bit different for every key. The same is for the feedback the keys give you when pressing them down: those old springs just don't give you that reliable feeling the Cherry MX Blue keys give you.
- xienze 8y ago
  Couldn’t agree more, I think the Model M is way overrated. The main issue I had is that, for me at least, my fingers would quickly become fatigued. I’ve found modern Cherry MX switches to be much better, not to mention quieter. Plus there’s a whole world of custom keyboards centered around the Cherry MX “ecosystem”.
- jghn 8y ago
  I went through the cherries and never found one I liked remotely as much as the Model M, so to each their own. Ironically the only thing I found that I liked as a replacement was the Apple keyboard, and that couldn’t be more different.
  - chrismorgan 8y ago
    (I assure you, it could be much more different. Ever tried a rubber keyboard? Not rubber dome, rubber. Flexible keyboards, roll ’em up and take ’em with you—or toss ’em if you prefer, they were awful to type on. I haven’t got the foggiest idea why they were a thing for a couple of years about thirteen years ago. My school got a bunch of them for a year or so. Or touch keyboards, they’re also much more differenter than Apple keyboards!)
    - jghn 8y ago
      Good point, I admit I was being facetious. An even further one would be one of those "keyboards" which project a keyboard image on a table! I can tell you why I like the Apple keyboards, including the newer butterfly ones. As much as I loved the Model M i never used it correctly as I always bottomed out the keys instead of relying on the tactile feedback to know when to stop. As a result what I really want to feel is the satisfying thunk at the bottom of every keystroke. Something about the travel distance and feel of those Apple keyboards is just close enough to comfortable that it became good enough.
sandGorgon 8y ago
If you can get it, the cheapest mechanical keyboard is the TVS Gold Bharat keyboard - made in India and is built with Cherry mx blue keys.
- captn3m0 8y ago
  It is a hit or a miss now, they are using Long Hua blue switches, which are Cherry MX Blue clones. If you can find an old one for sale - that is more likely to have Cherry MX.
lettergram 8y ago
Back in 2012 I started a side business, picking up old computer parts (for a fee) from businesses. Apparently, it's difficult to throw them away because of the lead content. I then took those components and either sold them as is or in the case of Model M keyboards - I could make them USB compatible and sell them for $100 - $150 (as opposed to $40 unaltered). I still have a few laying around, which I used through college. Having worked with innards and written a few controllers for conversion(s) of keyboards. I have to say, unlike many, I see the appeal. I'm currently writing this comment on a Corsair keyboard, and although there is tactile feedback - I can tell it is not a mechanical keyboard. "There's a clickety-clack, but not a snap" When you have a model M your keys (as shown in the article) essentially, buckle - and it requires more force. To be honest, after using the model M for a bit, you actually get stronger fingers... That feeling is often preferred, I personally can work on a mac fine, but flat keyboards I can find irritating because I like the feedback mechanism.
poisonborz 8y ago
Guess what, I still use a Logitech G11 (display-less version of the above). I purchased around 4 of them for my other workstations. Yes, the rubber dome has a different feel after some usage but you can get used to it after a few minutes. The added 18 custom keys and on the fly macro recording options are great. It's huge, but also spatious. The backlighting is dim and begins to strobe after a few years. I guess I'll have to look for alternatives in a few years when used ones in good condition will be hard to find, but as of now, I'd still purchase them. That's the thing with tactile tools you use every day - you just get attached to them.
zevv 8y ago
Yesss, another Model-M post, this always allows me to shamelessly promote one of my pet projects: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring "This project emulates the sound of my old faithful IBM Model-M space saver bucklespring keyboard while typing on my notebook, mainly for the purpose of annoying the hell out of my coworkers."
- tom_ 8y ago
  I couldn't get it to run on Windows, so I wrote one that would: https://github.com/tom-seddon/GfyKeys https://github.com/tom-seddon/GfyKeys I think there was some stuff that bucklespring does that mine doesn't, but once I'd got it basically working, I found I didn't really like it all that much. So I didn't bother doing anything more with it.
  - Tijdreiziger 8y ago
    It doesn't seem to work on Windows 10 :(
    - tom_ 8y ago
      Well, that is now beginning to look like a theme... It worked when I wrote it, but maybe one of the updates has changed something. I'll have a quick peek next week. Thank you for trying it, at least ;)
      - Tijdreiziger 8y ago
        It's one of those things where I know I'd go bonkers within 10 minutes, but still feel the strange desire to try it :P If you need any debugging info, just leave another comment here as a reply. I go through my replies every so often.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  Just tried this out, and I'm definitely getting a kick out of it. Though I do have a bug(?) report: the "-s" (stereo width) option doesn't seem to have any effect using version 1.4.0 here on my Ubuntu system. "-s 0" sounds the same as "-s 100" to me.
jsnell 8y ago
> If I can build an ultimate keyboard, I would say a combination of the capacitive buckling spring of the Model F + the modern layout of the Model M + Windows/Command key. Alas, no such product exists and I think the benefits of the modern Model M layout supersedes the slight benefit of the capacitive buckling spring. There's a company at least claiming to do that (but I don't know how true to the original these capacitive switches actually are): https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ Ordering seems to have closed yesterday, but given it's a weekend, maybe you can still sneak one in?
- yeokm1 8y ago
  I did mention it at the end of my blog post. "A small fun fact is that a guy is intending to remake the Model F keyboards, you can check out his site here. Hope you look at your keyboards differently from now!" The issue is that I want my full size layout like the Model M and modern keyboards. He does not seem to be making that version.
- rplst8 8y ago
  I think Unicomp makes what you want. http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A Or http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    Unicomp makes model M type keyboards, and they don't use capacitive buckling springs, so it's not quite the same thing.
    - rplst8 8y ago
      Ah. I missed the capacitive part. That said, from what I've read, the difference between the capacitive buckling springs and the membrane buckling springs is negligible. I used a Model M for years, and it was fantastic to type on.
- CarVac 8y ago
geertj 8y ago
Question: in open offices, what's the consensus of the etiquette regarding the use of loud keyboards?
- yeokm1 8y ago
  My colleague who sits beside me is okay with it :)
- yellowapple 8y ago
  Probably a dick move, depending on the ambient noise level of the office. Typewriters are still worse, though.
- wst_ 8y ago
  There are no rules in my office. No one would use "blues", though. Plenty of people, including me, have mechanical keyboards around - just not audible ones. Of course they would give you the "classical" caps hitting the chassis sound, but that is quite normal and acceptable where I work.
- Areading314 8y ago
  Loud keyboards are incredibly annoying and inconsiderate in an open office or any other kind of shared space
  - thrill 8y ago
    Open offices are incredibly annoying and inconsiderate to those trying to do real work on proper keyboards (and trackballs).
    - linker3000 8y ago
      Why do people who use laptops during their daily train commute seem to type REALLY LOUDLY!??
Fukkaudeku 8y ago
The Model M keyboard is the "I use arch btw" of keyboards.
- rocky1138 8y ago
  Haha this is true. I use a Model M keyboard, btw.
- linedash 8y ago
  My arch linux using co-worker is currently awaiting delivery of one of these: https://ergodox-ez.com/collections/frontpage https://ergodox-ez.com/collections/frontpage
  - kryogen1c 8y ago
    Omg it can come in Cherry silvers! It looks so comfy, I wonder how good it feels
    - pault 8y ago
      I've been using one for about six months now. The ortholinear layout and the custom key mapping reduced my WPM to near zero for about a week, and it took about a month to get back to full speed, but now you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. I love it so much I take it to the office and back home with me every day. I guess I should buy another one.
- chrismorgan 8y ago
  Model M: “the old is good”. Arch Linux: “… um, no. The new is good. Why do you think I left Ubuntu in the first place?” (Having more control is one aspect of it, but rolling releases and not having to add a PPA to get a newer-than-five-years-ago version of a package is rather compelling too.)
rocky1138 8y ago
I bought one of these for myself last year, as it was on my wishlist from when I was a kid. My primary school had IBM PS/2 computers in ~1992 when I was in grade four, so I bought a vintage Model M keyboard made in 1992. I learned to type on these keyboards, so I've always had a sort of affinity with them. Buying this keyboard was one of the best purchases I think I've made in my life. It's just a joy to type on and brings a love for computing hardware back that I feel I've lost as computers have become commodities. If you're on the fence, pull the trigger. I got mine from https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store.
bdz 8y ago
Never had an M but I'm a big fan of cheap chinese mechanical keyboards, they are getting better and better every year.
cheesedoodle 8y ago
I have tried and tested many mechanical keyboards, cherry mx blue, brown and black. I feel like I'm disturbing my co-workers with the clicking, and always felt that there is something off with my typing. Sometimes, a bit clunky and nervous, as the keys need to much force and doesn't bottom out. It's funny that the author compares the expensive mechanical keyboards with the Logitech K120, which I have found to be the best and most comfortable keyboard that I have yet to try. It's even more funny as it is one cheapest ones you can find (10-15USD), almost makes the keyboard even better!
- contingencies 8y ago
  What do you like about the K120? (The price on Taobao is apparently 42RMB delivered domestically within China which is only USD$6.35.) Personally I grew up with Model M's but have not used one in decades. I do feel the keyboards on most laptops are crap... side-shifting / imprecise travel, weird noises, stuck keys, etc. That's OK with me, I type less these days anyway!
  - cheesedoodle 8y ago
    Its quite, I always hit the right keys and it might be the layout that makes me not think about where the keys are. I feel like my fingers strikes the keys in a comfortable and confident manner. I type fast on it and use it for both my Mac and PC setup. The keystroke is short, but gives a sound/click response that's very subtle. 6USD is real cheap :) I might even get a few to just have backups.
    - contingencies 8y ago
      Every time I change keyboards (particularly to/from Mac, but also new laptops on a given platform generally have slightly different layouts) I feel like I go through the 'readjust to key position' thing. It's not a biggy these days, having done it perhaps 30+ times. Right now my biggest whinge is there are too many meta keys. Ctrl+Fn+Win+Alt+Shift is just overkill. Bring back home and end (switching to Mac years ago this was my biggest gripe), down with the Windows key, larger space bars for all! Often I find myself trying weird meta combos to get the functionality I need, I feel like I use so much different software on so many platforms it's basically easier to brute force search the meta-space than remember the damn platform-specific hotkeys half the time :)
skizm 8y ago
After so many hours gaming, I can no longer use keyboards without the left ctrl key under my left palm. It feels so foreign I can barely type. I recently discovered this playing around with some older keyboards with the larger bezels.
souterrain 8y ago
I never learned to type "properly", or, should I say, never completed learning. We were told very sternly in catholic school typing class not to fiddle with the IBM Selectric "golf ball" lest the typewriter malfunction and we be permanently removed from the class. Being a curious and tinkering individual, I was presently kicked out of the class. (Insert here rant on rewarding curiosity in schools, rather than punishing it.) Today I have a bizarre, hybrid typing style, somewhere near touch-typing with a lot of error correcting, and occasional hunt-and-peck. It's odd... the hunt-and-peck occurs more when I'm typing nonsense like passwords. Words (and quasi-words in code and the shell) seem to come out just fine. That said, it's nice to see that even in my 40s, I can improve at something over time. A lot of the improvements in my typing, I owe to returning to mechanical keyboards. (I think... this is completely unscientific.) First, I switched to a Das Keyboard Ultimate, without labeled keycaps. This really forced myself to get away from the crutch that was the labeled keys. Lately, I've switched to a Kinesis Advantage 2 ergonomic keyboard. This has helped more with my hand positioning, which seems to have improved even going back to a "default keyboard" -- I've noticed that when traveling and using my laptop keyboard, my typing has also improved. I will fully admit that in addition to attempting to improve my typing and treat/prevent RSI in a non-scientific manner, I bought these keyboards for the eccentric nerd factor. As one does.
- WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
  > the hunt-and-peck occurs more when I'm typing nonsense like passwords Actually one of the reasons password manages are recommended is that entering passwords is never as fast as typing normal words so it's easier to shoulder surf.
  - souterrain 8y ago
    Passwords really do need to die.
  - Izkata 8y ago
    All my passwords use pronounceable combinations of letters, so I can type them as fast as my normal typing. It has to do with mental grouping [0]. Words aren't a bag of letters, their order has a particular meaning. The mental overhead of "tbwvpcrwx" is 9 letters, while "WrtCdEvrydy" is, for me, 5 things: "w" "r" "t" "cd" "evrydy" (and I assume based on the capitalization, 3 things for you). With regular use, your mind creates a mapping of "thing" to "keypresses". As long as a password remains a 9-thing bag of characters in your head, those 9 things will be slower to type than a 3-thing set of letters. But if you can create mental meaning from them, your password-typing speed will increase to where it's indistinguishable from normal words. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus... (Quick edit: "WrtCdEvrydy" just dropped to "3 things" for me right after posting, I now have "Wrt" in my head as the fake-word "wirt".)
AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
Given the price they're going for, having a Model M seems more like a status symbol now than a true devotion to mechanical keyboards. I had a co-worker with a Model M. It was certainly nice (and heavy), but I had a hard time justifying paying 3x the price for it when my $40 generic mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches (or maybe they were "Blue" Cherry-like switches, come to think of it) were nearly as good. I suppose if my keyboard starts to crap out in three years then maybe the Model M would be the more prudent investment, but, for the moment, it's holding strong, and I didn't need to break the bank to get one.
jjuhl 8y ago
I used to own a model M back in the early 90's. It was a joy to use and you could drive a tank over it without damaging it. Unfortunately I lost it during a house move. These days I settle for keyboards with Cherry MX blue switches. But I still want a model M with springs.
psankar 8y ago
The best keyboard that I have personally used is the old IBM Thinkpad keys. They had a slight curve for accommodating touch typists, instead of the flat keys in the modern keyboards. I could type at 100+ WPM in the old IBM thinkpads even when I am sitting in a dark room. I struggle to reach around 80 wpm in the macbook pro and modern lenovo thinkpads. The new macbook pro with the touchbar is the worst keyboard that I have ever used and I ended up buying an old model Macbook just because of the keyboard. I wish Microsoft or Google releases a good developer oriented laptop with proper keyboard (Preferably licensing the old IBM thinkpad keyboard style) and full-size buttons for arrow keys, boatloads of extensible RAM and a gorgeous screen. Apple seem to not care anymore about macbooks :(
- barrkel 8y ago
  I have never seen a keyboard without curved keys. Laptops with flat keys, yes, but laptop keyboards are a last resort.
  - opencl 8y ago
    Then you've had the good fortune of never having to use an Apple desktop keyboard made in the past 10 years.
    - jsjohnst 8y ago
      Call me weird if you must, but I truly appreciate the Apple keyboards. Probably my favorite is the new model Bluetooth keyboard. I love the very very minimal key travel and low activation pressure. I used to have to use “natural” keyboards to keep carpel tunnel at bay, but the previously mentioned features seem to accomplish the same goal. My only nit with it is that I wish it was a full size keyboard including numeric keypad, but I’ve gotten used to not having it now. I also mostly like the new laptop keyboards too, but they can be a bit noisy for my taste when I’m typing fast, especially on the 2016 12” MacBook.
      - freehunter 8y ago
nlh 8y ago
I’ve recently fallen down the deep dark rathole that is mechanical keyboards and I heartily encourage others to do the same :) For those of us that spend a majority of our working (and leisure?) time typing, it only makes sense (ha!) to customize and optimize the tool you use to accomplish that. This is apparently a love/hate thing for some, but I really like the feel (and sound — THOCK) of Topre keyboards. They use electrostatic capacitive switches and are super satisfying. Also it’s kinda fun to build crazy customized stuff :) Shameless plug - check out /r/mechanicalkeyboards to catch a glimpse of the depths of obsession that exist...
tyfon 8y ago
My last genuine Model M was from 1987 and it died a few years ago. I bought a Das Keyboard and it has been a great replacement :) The layout of Model M and the tactile feedback is simply the best.. I type much faster on it than anything else.
philjohn 8y ago
Model M's are great - but if you use one in an open plan office then there's a special place in hell for you ...
- diggernet 8y ago
  Open plan is a special place in hell. Might as well use a decent keyboard while you are there.
  - bitwize 8y ago
    I tell people that there's a circle of hell reserved for people who steal office supplies and take long shits on the job. It consists of an open-plan office where you have to prepare long complicated reports that are due by COB each day, working cheek-by-jowl with your fellow damned. Behind you, there are rows of demons eating apples, crisps, pretzels, nuts, and other crunchy things. Maybe some of the demons should be working Model M keyboards, as well.
    - diggernet 8y ago
      Don't forget the demons drinking from sports bottles that gurgle.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
My first computer was an IBM PC XT, so I have a nostalgic attachment to the sound and feel of my Model-M. No, neither of the M's I own are the one from my first PC, I acquired them from a former employer who had a small pile tucked away in a storage closet that everyone had forgotten about.
- walshemj 8y ago
  I think the XT was a model F
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    I think you're right that they shipped with an F, but mine was used (I had it in the 90s) and it came with an M.
bitcharmer 8y ago
I've used computers for the past 30 years and having switched to ultra flat keyboards (cherry strait being my personal choice) of modern age I just can't see how old type mechanical keyboards can beat the experience. Can someone explain to me what advantages draw them to mechanical keyboards? Not hating, just trying to understand the phenomenon.
- ddon 8y ago
  I think this is mostly because of a sound old keys make.
- Ardren 8y ago
  1. They feel really nice to type on 2. They are often very well built I have a ortho chiclet keyboard which I think is pretty nice, and miles ahead of any membrane keyboard. But 99% of the time I still end up using mechanical keyboards.
  - bitcharmer 8y ago
    > 1. They feel really nice to type on Ok, I guess this is as subjective as it gets, but don't you think that flat keyboard with small key depression and quick reaction time beats mechanical in terms of typing speed?
    - Ardren 8y ago
      I really don't know which is meant to be quicker. But rarely when typing am I constrained by the length of travel or weight of the keys (within reason). So it (almost) all comes down to what feels nicer.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      Old keyboards aren't flat intentionally. It's because the profile of the keys is designed to make them easier to type on (so your fingers have to move less distance to reach all the keys). If flat was better, keyboards would have just been flat from the beginning. It would make manufacturing easier, after all.
jaclaz 8y ago
The sad part is that in my case (while still using an original Model M from PS/2, circa 1992)it is some thirty years younger than me. Only for the record, there are guys specialized in procuring, restoring and reselling Model M's: https://clickykeyboards.com/ https://clickykeyboards.com/
Yhippa 8y ago
I grew up using the Model M's in various computer labs. For my own computers I didn't have enough money so I stuck with membrane keyboards. I recently got some Cherry MX browns. Nothing is like that Model M IMO. It is probably straight nostalgia thinking about it. I've tried nearly every keyboard type due to working in consulting and using all kinds of laptops and desktops but I have a new personal favorite: the Chromebook Pixel keyboard. It feels like sex to type on.
anon2600 8y ago
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=123223579776&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111 http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2...
bitwize 8y ago
Ah, the Model M. The red Swingline stapler of techies. Hint: If you think you "need"a Model M, or even a Cherry MX blue board, YOU'RE TYPING TOO HARD. Get an Apple keyboard and practice typing with a light touch.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  Or maybe different people have different keyboard preferences.
znpy 8y ago
Since we're talking Model M, I will leave here my two cents about this whole mechanical keyboard wave that's been going on for some years now. And before everyone downvotes me: - yes, I own a mechanical keyboard (more than one, actually). - Yes, one of them is a Model M. I also own an Unicomp Endura Pro (the one with the TrackPoint). - Yes I have used some other Cherry-based keyboard (cherry blue and another color I didn't care remembering) - Yes I have used a Topre-based keyboard. Well, here is my two cents: mechanical keyboard are pointless. It's one of those memes of this industry (like stickers on laptops). While I acknowledge that some membrane keyboard typing experience are atrocious, sometimes it's just a matter of brand/model. For example the "Dell Business Multimedia Keyboard" typing experience is remarkably good (link: https://www.amazon.com/KB522-Dell-Business-Multimedia-Compatible/dp/B00APNV312/ref=sr_1_7 https://www.amazon.com/KB522-Dell-Business-Multimedia-Compat...). Quite frankly, I'd throw my Endura Pro in the trash can if that Dell Keyboard was available with the addition of a TrackPoint. Mechanical keyboards offer no real typing aid, no speed-up, they are heavy, noisy (the "hey everybody look at me" kind of noisy), they have unnecessary accessories (rgb lighting wave effect? but why?) and above all they are unreasonably expensive. Quite frankly, the best keyboard I have used so far is the ThinkPad USB Keyboard (1st gen, basically an X220 keyboard within a nice enclosure with a decent palmrest). It's light and checks all of my boxes. And it's not louder than a regular keyboard.
- freehunter 8y ago
  I had a Model M back in the days when you could still buy a real Model M, and I was happy to get rid of it. I think everyone should use whatever type of keyboard fits them best and I'd never tell anyone they're using their keyboard wrong if that's the keyboard they like, but my favorite keyboard is the one on my 2015 rMBP. (disclosure, I've never used the keyboard on the brand new Macbook so I have no opinion on that) I was glad to get rid of my Model M not only because, like you said, it was obnoxiously loud, but also because the keys were so damn heavy. Every mechanical keyboard I've used, I feel the same way on. I end up feeling like I'm forcing my fingers down, which tires out my wrists and forearms. Typing on a previous-generation Macbook keyboard, the keys respond almost the second I touch them, with barely any pressure needed at all. It feels a lot nicer and more responsive. I'm sure eventually I could find a really nice mechanical keyboard I like, but yeah, they're really expensive so I don't want to buy a bunch of them. I personally don't like the feeling or the sound of typing on a typewriter, which mechanical keyboards feel like to me. I'm very happy with my current laptop's keyboard. Along the same vein, my 2013 MBP with the mechanical trackpad click is awful and hurts my finger over time when I click it. I much prefer the new force touch trackpad that doesn't really click, since it takes a lot less pressure to activate.
tombert 8y ago
My keyboard at work is a 122-key IBM Model F. I bought a relatively expensive adapter to plug it into a modern computer, and I don't regret it at all. While I know there was a bit of a reboot-project a year or two ago, other than that there really hasn't been anything that quite matches the feel of the Model F, and it's an absolute joy to type on. It's also a wonderful tool to make a lot of noise and annoy coworkers, so it's great on two fronts. The way I figure it is that I spend a majority of my day typing on a keyboard, so it's worth it to me to have the tool that feels right to me.
clircle 8y ago
I have not used a lot of mechanical keyboards, but I think there is a spectrum where laptop flat keyboards are on one end and clacky big mechanical keyboards are on the other end. For some reason I find that I like keyboards somewhere in the middle -- boards with good key travel but also a fair bit of mush in the key presses. Currently rotating between Topres and MX Brown switches this year.
paulie_a 8y ago
If that is a clicky keyboard and work with others that is grounds to be fired.
- bagosm 8y ago
  And I still can't find any advantages (even in the article) except "you have to try it". For me, if the "digging in" distance and spring-out resistance is satisfactory it's a good keyboard. I only can't stand the laptop flat ones
rbanffy 8y ago
I really wish someone resurrected the beam spring keyboards. I'm quite sure all design patents on those are long expired.
rbanffy 8y ago
It's a matter of taste, but I love my Unicomp "Battleship" PC-122 keyboard. It's noisy, but it feels great and the sound is reminiscent of a time when computers were built to last rather than being thrown away to be recycled when they break. But then I'm a nostalgic.
foobarbecue 8y ago
This article talked a lot about keyboards, but failed to say why. What is the advantage of a Model M? I used one for a long time, and it's in the closet now. I can type faster on modern keyboards, because my fingers don't move as far. I suspect the only real reason to use a Model M is perceived "hacker cred."
nwah1 8y ago
After trying a few different brands of mechanical keyboard, I found WASD Keyboards to be very sturdy and customizable. I have my configuration setup in a Model M style, but with Cherry clear switches. Although, I would love doubleshot PBT caps for the colemak layout, but that is not available. Other caps tend to fade quickly. I'm also interested in trying other switches.
O1111OOO 8y ago
Interesting that there's no discussion on the size/shape of the [Enter/Return] key. My first computer in the 80s came with a larger, L-Shaped [Enter] key[0]. Didn't think much of it at the time until all I saw afterwards was the thinner, bar-shaped style. I think part of the reason is that I never use the right-hand shiftKey - which has always seemed obnoxiously large (because I never use it). Also not a keyboard junkie, I always type on whatever keyboard the computer/laptop comes with. To this day, I do miss the larger [Enter/Return] key but can't justify carrying an extra keyboard because of a single annoying key. [0] https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z0VXC.jpg https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z0VXC.jpg
sbr464 8y ago
Totally bought one from ClickyKeyboards this morning after reading. Thanks for the write up. Currently switch between a Vortex VTG-8200 and the iMac Pro keyboard. The vortex is nice. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2451 https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
yial 8y ago
I use a model M as well! I have some that I saved from an old office of mine, but sadly I didn’t save all of them. (They had thrown out 20-25 the week before while I was on vacation. I guess that’s what happens when you miss out on spring cleaning).
IdontRememberIt 8y ago
Is there a keyboard which has solved the issue of the noise?Also, do you know any keyboard with a higher typing surface to allow less precise positioning of the fingers? Today, my prefered keyboard (for coding) is the one on my Lenovo X1 carbon. Silent, precise but "fault tolerant". Very impressive. Only issue is the layout a full keyboard would be way better.

152 points by yeokm1 8y ago

NVRM 8y ago

In the era of RGB keyboard, coming back to a non illuminated one would feels really broken. Luminance and typing effects really helps to type faster. After tested a bunch of them, I stick to a Corsair k70 cherry mx brown for programming, not much downside, just deliberately noisy. Ear that: https://youtu.be/op_9KodHoYA?t=39 https://youtu.be/op_9KodHoYA?t=39

safgasCVS 8y ago

I make a big deal about my keyboard because my work and life are completely mediocre so I need something else to make me feel special without actually putting in any actual effort. I also have strong opinions about design, coffee, movies or pretty much anything that can be consumed without effort.

mclemme 8y ago

Brings back memories! I learned touch typing using two IBM Model M keyboards that my friends dad got from some bank office he was hired to clear out (the bank had closed, I think he drove half a trailer filled with those keyboards to the recycling center, would probably be worth quite a bit today!) I took two, spray painted one black and switched over every second keycap so I had two keyboards with every 2nd key completely black. Today I use a Logitech G413 mechanical keyboard at work, it's descent, but I still miss the old battle-tank Model M sometimes :)

magoon 8y ago

Having started typing on IBM keyboards before the Model M, and eventually struggling to adapt to non-“mechanical” keyboards, it’s now hard for me to understand why people want to use them. I didn’t want to go to the “soft” laptop keyboards but learned to love them. It turns out the springs on the loud keyboards caused me a lot of repetitive stress discomfort and actually slowed down my typing.

zerr 8y ago
There are lots of different type of mechanical switches, maybe you need to find the right one? Many are soft and/or silent, if that's your thing.
StavrosK 8y ago
I'm in the middle camp: I have two Das keyboards, and I like them a lot, but I don't have a problem using my Dell laptop's (or my Mac book's) keyboard either. I don't see what all the fuss is about, both types seem about as comfortable to me.
- Drdrdrq 8y ago
  I bought Das because I thought I wanted a better keyboard and remembered that back in the day I loved my mechanical "click" keyboard. It turns out I was wrong. The (brown) switches were waaay too loud for my (and my coworkers') taste and the quality of build was simply appaling given their price tag. Not totally bad, but worse than any "normal" Logitech kbd. I got rid of it after ~5 months.
  - bluesroo 8y ago
    So this wouldn't work with blues, but for browns, blacks, and reds you can always get O-rings to put under the keys. In college I played lots of video games late at night while my roommate was sleeping and once I installed O-rings on my MX reds he never had issues again.
    - Drdrdrq 8y ago
      Cool, didn't know that. Is the feeling any different? Anyway, that keyboard is gone and I am never buying one based on reviews only again. :)
      - __blockcipher__ 8y ago
        The feeling is a little less fun, but still better than a normal keyboard. Disclosure: I’m not the one you responded to

arendtio 8y ago

Some people might be interested in 'Das Keyboard' (German for 'The Keyboard'): https://www.daskeyboard.com https://www.daskeyboard.com

danial 8y ago
I have the Model S Professional [1] and very happy with it. It's the Clicky - MX Blue and was a gift from someone who I shared an office with. I think they weren't too happy about how loud it was. Thankfully, I now work in my own office so I don't have to worry about it being loud. [1] https://shop.daskeyboard.com/products/das-keyboard-professional-model-s https://shop.daskeyboard.com/products/das-keyboard-professio...
rootbear 8y ago
I have several of their keyboards and love them. For a while, they were using Chinese copies of Cherry keys and those weren't as good, so I always make sure I get a model with Cherry keys. My reason for preferring mechanical keyboards is due to spinal nerve damage I have as a result of a dual disk fusion some years ago. I have limited sensation in over half of my fingers and the additional tactile and audio feedback of a mechanical keyboard makes a real difference. I tried one of the current MacBooks in the Apple store and it was awful. There is far too little feedback for my damaged hands. I use my current 2014 MacBook with an external Das Keyboard normally, but it is usable when I take it on the road. I'm not convinced that would be the case with the current MacBooks. Not to pick on Apple too much, the standard throwaway mushboards that come with the Dell systems at work are similarly unusable for me.
allendoerfer 8y ago
German for "The Keyboard" is "die Tastatur". In German the word "das Keyboard" refers to the musical instrument.
mcculley 8y ago
I have bought several of these for myself and my staff. They are great and I highly recommend them. (This comment was typed on one.)
8y ago

jacksmith21006 8y ago

I have also have one and gave it to my son who wanted it. It has the old connector. Found out after giving it to him they are valuable. But NOT older than me. I am old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard

EliRivers 8y ago
Do you mean a PS/2 connector, or a five pin DIN? Or even one of the earlier connectors; I had an IBM keyboard once that was something I can only imagine predated the 5 pin DIN. PS/2 to five pin DIN (and vice-versa) was easy enough, but I never did get that keyboard connected to anything. I'm typing this on a Model M I picked up from my keyboard corner just now. As I recall, this one doesn't work well; pretty soon, it will stop registering some keypresses. Never have been able to work out why :/

ScarZy 8y ago

I was lucky enough to bag one of these on eBay 10 years ago, someone was selling a god awful computer and I asked if I could just take the keyboard for a vintage computing project. Cost me 10 pounds. I bolt modded it, but eventually sold it as I wanted to fund my HHKB addiction which is a solid keyboard, just more portable than a Model M Thankfully, a friend gave me another Model M recently, and it's now awaiting a clean and a cable

bitL 8y ago

If you don't like those "yellowish" keys, get some peroxide cream, put a layer over all yellowish surfaces and leave it on the sun for a few days, applying more cream if needed. You'll get them back to normal ;-) I've recently "resurrected" my old Creative Prodikeys that way. Applies to any older yellowish plastic stuff, e.g. you want your retro Amiga 500 to look good again etc.

georgyo 8y ago
Do you have some before and after pictures?
- TomNomNom 8y ago
  The 8-Bit Guy has a fantastic video on YouTube comparing a few different methods of restoring yellowed plastic, including the peroxide in the sun method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY :)
  - globuous 8y ago
    Damn, that was a really cool video !! Here's a link to his results for keyboard keys (they all initially looked like the control key): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=780 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=780 and for an computer case (essentially everything was as brown as that rectangle you can see): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=1120 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY&t=1120

eej71 8y ago

Unicomp (http://www.pckeyboard.com/ http://www.pckeyboard.com/) is a great source for the IBM Model M style keyboards.

mcculley 8y ago
I bought a keyboard from Unicomp hoping to get something as great as the Model M. It arrived with keycaps popped off during shipping and failed not long after that (https://twitter.com/mcculley/status/659798006208856064 https://twitter.com/mcculley/status/659798006208856064). I have since bought several Das Keyboards for myself and my staff. I love them. Of course, we have private offices. I would not advise using these great keyboards in open floor plan offices or coworking spaces.
- peatmoss 8y ago
  Interesting! I bought one a few years ago, and other than slightly cheaper plastic extrusion, I can’t tell that there’s anything worse about this than a classic Model M. To your second point, when it came time to get a mechanical keyboard for a open plan office, I bought a firm, but non-clacky Cherry switch keyboard. I quite like feel of it... there’s something satisfying about the Unicomp / Model M, but I can’t help but think the actual typing experience of the Rosewill generic Cherry keyboard isn’t a bit better.
- michaelcampbell 8y ago
  > I would not advise using these great keyboards in open floor plan offices or coworking spaces. That says more about having open floor offices than having to restrict personal use of the single most important input device in many offices.
  - mcculley 8y ago
    I agree. That’s why I favor real offices for doing real work. Still, I occasionally work in close proximity to others. I would not bring along one of these keyboards to such situations and suffer along with my laptop keyboard.
  - 8y ago

y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago

I don't understand why so many people are in love with the Model M. I used one for nearly 3 years before switching to a Cherry MX blue keyboard. After using a modern mechanical keyboard, I would never switch back to a Model M. Probably because of time, on the Model M every key has a different feeling. You never know where the activation point of the key is, because it is a little bit different for every key. The same is for the feedback the keys give you when pressing them down: those old springs just don't give you that reliable feeling the Cherry MX Blue keys give you.

xienze 8y ago
Couldn’t agree more, I think the Model M is way overrated. The main issue I had is that, for me at least, my fingers would quickly become fatigued. I’ve found modern Cherry MX switches to be much better, not to mention quieter. Plus there’s a whole world of custom keyboards centered around the Cherry MX “ecosystem”.
jghn 8y ago
I went through the cherries and never found one I liked remotely as much as the Model M, so to each their own. Ironically the only thing I found that I liked as a replacement was the Apple keyboard, and that couldn’t be more different.
- chrismorgan 8y ago
  (I assure you, it could be much more different. Ever tried a rubber keyboard? Not rubber dome, rubber. Flexible keyboards, roll ’em up and take ’em with you—or toss ’em if you prefer, they were awful to type on. I haven’t got the foggiest idea why they were a thing for a couple of years about thirteen years ago. My school got a bunch of them for a year or so. Or touch keyboards, they’re also much more differenter than Apple keyboards!)
  - jghn 8y ago
    Good point, I admit I was being facetious. An even further one would be one of those "keyboards" which project a keyboard image on a table! I can tell you why I like the Apple keyboards, including the newer butterfly ones. As much as I loved the Model M i never used it correctly as I always bottomed out the keys instead of relying on the tactile feedback to know when to stop. As a result what I really want to feel is the satisfying thunk at the bottom of every keystroke. Something about the travel distance and feel of those Apple keyboards is just close enough to comfortable that it became good enough.

sandGorgon 8y ago

If you can get it, the cheapest mechanical keyboard is the TVS Gold Bharat keyboard - made in India and is built with Cherry mx blue keys.

captn3m0 8y ago
It is a hit or a miss now, they are using Long Hua blue switches, which are Cherry MX Blue clones. If you can find an old one for sale - that is more likely to have Cherry MX.

lettergram 8y ago

Back in 2012 I started a side business, picking up old computer parts (for a fee) from businesses. Apparently, it's difficult to throw them away because of the lead content. I then took those components and either sold them as is or in the case of Model M keyboards - I could make them USB compatible and sell them for $100 - $150 (as opposed to $40 unaltered). I still have a few laying around, which I used through college. Having worked with innards and written a few controllers for conversion(s) of keyboards. I have to say, unlike many, I see the appeal. I'm currently writing this comment on a Corsair keyboard, and although there is tactile feedback - I can tell it is not a mechanical keyboard. "There's a clickety-clack, but not a snap" When you have a model M your keys (as shown in the article) essentially, buckle - and it requires more force. To be honest, after using the model M for a bit, you actually get stronger fingers... That feeling is often preferred, I personally can work on a mac fine, but flat keyboards I can find irritating because I like the feedback mechanism.

poisonborz 8y ago

Guess what, I still use a Logitech G11 (display-less version of the above). I purchased around 4 of them for my other workstations. Yes, the rubber dome has a different feel after some usage but you can get used to it after a few minutes. The added 18 custom keys and on the fly macro recording options are great. It's huge, but also spatious. The backlighting is dim and begins to strobe after a few years. I guess I'll have to look for alternatives in a few years when used ones in good condition will be hard to find, but as of now, I'd still purchase them. That's the thing with tactile tools you use every day - you just get attached to them.

zevv 8y ago

Yesss, another Model-M post, this always allows me to shamelessly promote one of my pet projects: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring "This project emulates the sound of my old faithful IBM Model-M space saver bucklespring keyboard while typing on my notebook, mainly for the purpose of annoying the hell out of my coworkers."

tom_ 8y ago
I couldn't get it to run on Windows, so I wrote one that would: https://github.com/tom-seddon/GfyKeys https://github.com/tom-seddon/GfyKeys I think there was some stuff that bucklespring does that mine doesn't, but once I'd got it basically working, I found I didn't really like it all that much. So I didn't bother doing anything more with it.
- Tijdreiziger 8y ago
  It doesn't seem to work on Windows 10 :(
  - tom_ 8y ago
    Well, that is now beginning to look like a theme... It worked when I wrote it, but maybe one of the updates has changed something. I'll have a quick peek next week. Thank you for trying it, at least ;)
    - Tijdreiziger 8y ago
      It's one of those things where I know I'd go bonkers within 10 minutes, but still feel the strange desire to try it :P If you need any debugging info, just leave another comment here as a reply. I go through my replies every so often.
adrianmonk 8y ago
Just tried this out, and I'm definitely getting a kick out of it. Though I do have a bug(?) report: the "-s" (stereo width) option doesn't seem to have any effect using version 1.4.0 here on my Ubuntu system. "-s 0" sounds the same as "-s 100" to me.

jsnell 8y ago

> If I can build an ultimate keyboard, I would say a combination of the capacitive buckling spring of the Model F + the modern layout of the Model M + Windows/Command key. Alas, no such product exists and I think the benefits of the modern Model M layout supersedes the slight benefit of the capacitive buckling spring. There's a company at least claiming to do that (but I don't know how true to the original these capacitive switches actually are): https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ Ordering seems to have closed yesterday, but given it's a weekend, maybe you can still sneak one in?

yeokm1 8y ago
I did mention it at the end of my blog post. "A small fun fact is that a guy is intending to remake the Model F keyboards, you can check out his site here. Hope you look at your keyboards differently from now!" The issue is that I want my full size layout like the Model M and modern keyboards. He does not seem to be making that version.
rplst8 8y ago
I think Unicomp makes what you want. http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A Or http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A
- ubercow13 8y ago
  Unicomp makes model M type keyboards, and they don't use capacitive buckling springs, so it's not quite the same thing.
  - rplst8 8y ago
    Ah. I missed the capacitive part. That said, from what I've read, the difference between the capacitive buckling springs and the membrane buckling springs is negligible. I used a Model M for years, and it was fantastic to type on.
CarVac 8y ago

geertj 8y ago

Question: in open offices, what's the consensus of the etiquette regarding the use of loud keyboards?

yeokm1 8y ago
My colleague who sits beside me is okay with it :)
yellowapple 8y ago
Probably a dick move, depending on the ambient noise level of the office. Typewriters are still worse, though.
wst_ 8y ago
There are no rules in my office. No one would use "blues", though. Plenty of people, including me, have mechanical keyboards around - just not audible ones. Of course they would give you the "classical" caps hitting the chassis sound, but that is quite normal and acceptable where I work.
Areading314 8y ago
Loud keyboards are incredibly annoying and inconsiderate in an open office or any other kind of shared space
- thrill 8y ago
  Open offices are incredibly annoying and inconsiderate to those trying to do real work on proper keyboards (and trackballs).
  - linker3000 8y ago
    Why do people who use laptops during their daily train commute seem to type REALLY LOUDLY!??

Fukkaudeku 8y ago

The Model M keyboard is the "I use arch btw" of keyboards.

rocky1138 8y ago
Haha this is true. I use a Model M keyboard, btw.
linedash 8y ago
My arch linux using co-worker is currently awaiting delivery of one of these: https://ergodox-ez.com/collections/frontpage https://ergodox-ez.com/collections/frontpage
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  Omg it can come in Cherry silvers! It looks so comfy, I wonder how good it feels
  - pault 8y ago
    I've been using one for about six months now. The ortholinear layout and the custom key mapping reduced my WPM to near zero for about a week, and it took about a month to get back to full speed, but now you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. I love it so much I take it to the office and back home with me every day. I guess I should buy another one.
chrismorgan 8y ago
Model M: “the old is good”. Arch Linux: “… um, no. The new is good. Why do you think I left Ubuntu in the first place?” (Having more control is one aspect of it, but rolling releases and not having to add a PPA to get a newer-than-five-years-ago version of a package is rather compelling too.)

rocky1138 8y ago

I bought one of these for myself last year, as it was on my wishlist from when I was a kid. My primary school had IBM PS/2 computers in ~1992 when I was in grade four, so I bought a vintage Model M keyboard made in 1992. I learned to type on these keyboards, so I've always had a sort of affinity with them. Buying this keyboard was one of the best purchases I think I've made in my life. It's just a joy to type on and brings a love for computing hardware back that I feel I've lost as computers have become commodities. If you're on the fence, pull the trigger. I got mine from https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store.

bdz 8y ago

Never had an M but I'm a big fan of cheap chinese mechanical keyboards, they are getting better and better every year.

cheesedoodle 8y ago

I have tried and tested many mechanical keyboards, cherry mx blue, brown and black. I feel like I'm disturbing my co-workers with the clicking, and always felt that there is something off with my typing. Sometimes, a bit clunky and nervous, as the keys need to much force and doesn't bottom out. It's funny that the author compares the expensive mechanical keyboards with the Logitech K120, which I have found to be the best and most comfortable keyboard that I have yet to try. It's even more funny as it is one cheapest ones you can find (10-15USD), almost makes the keyboard even better!

contingencies 8y ago
What do you like about the K120? (The price on Taobao is apparently 42RMB delivered domestically within China which is only USD$6.35.) Personally I grew up with Model M's but have not used one in decades. I do feel the keyboards on most laptops are crap... side-shifting / imprecise travel, weird noises, stuck keys, etc. That's OK with me, I type less these days anyway!
- cheesedoodle 8y ago
  Its quite, I always hit the right keys and it might be the layout that makes me not think about where the keys are. I feel like my fingers strikes the keys in a comfortable and confident manner. I type fast on it and use it for both my Mac and PC setup. The keystroke is short, but gives a sound/click response that's very subtle. 6USD is real cheap :) I might even get a few to just have backups.
  - contingencies 8y ago
    Every time I change keyboards (particularly to/from Mac, but also new laptops on a given platform generally have slightly different layouts) I feel like I go through the 'readjust to key position' thing. It's not a biggy these days, having done it perhaps 30+ times. Right now my biggest whinge is there are too many meta keys. Ctrl+Fn+Win+Alt+Shift is just overkill. Bring back home and end (switching to Mac years ago this was my biggest gripe), down with the Windows key, larger space bars for all! Often I find myself trying weird meta combos to get the functionality I need, I feel like I use so much different software on so many platforms it's basically easier to brute force search the meta-space than remember the damn platform-specific hotkeys half the time :)

skizm 8y ago

After so many hours gaming, I can no longer use keyboards without the left ctrl key under my left palm. It feels so foreign I can barely type. I recently discovered this playing around with some older keyboards with the larger bezels.

souterrain 8y ago

I never learned to type "properly", or, should I say, never completed learning. We were told very sternly in catholic school typing class not to fiddle with the IBM Selectric "golf ball" lest the typewriter malfunction and we be permanently removed from the class. Being a curious and tinkering individual, I was presently kicked out of the class. (Insert here rant on rewarding curiosity in schools, rather than punishing it.) Today I have a bizarre, hybrid typing style, somewhere near touch-typing with a lot of error correcting, and occasional hunt-and-peck. It's odd... the hunt-and-peck occurs more when I'm typing nonsense like passwords. Words (and quasi-words in code and the shell) seem to come out just fine. That said, it's nice to see that even in my 40s, I can improve at something over time. A lot of the improvements in my typing, I owe to returning to mechanical keyboards. (I think... this is completely unscientific.) First, I switched to a Das Keyboard Ultimate, without labeled keycaps. This really forced myself to get away from the crutch that was the labeled keys. Lately, I've switched to a Kinesis Advantage 2 ergonomic keyboard. This has helped more with my hand positioning, which seems to have improved even going back to a "default keyboard" -- I've noticed that when traveling and using my laptop keyboard, my typing has also improved. I will fully admit that in addition to attempting to improve my typing and treat/prevent RSI in a non-scientific manner, I bought these keyboards for the eccentric nerd factor. As one does.

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
> the hunt-and-peck occurs more when I'm typing nonsense like passwords Actually one of the reasons password manages are recommended is that entering passwords is never as fast as typing normal words so it's easier to shoulder surf.
- souterrain 8y ago
  Passwords really do need to die.
- Izkata 8y ago
  All my passwords use pronounceable combinations of letters, so I can type them as fast as my normal typing. It has to do with mental grouping [0]. Words aren't a bag of letters, their order has a particular meaning. The mental overhead of "tbwvpcrwx" is 9 letters, while "WrtCdEvrydy" is, for me, 5 things: "w" "r" "t" "cd" "evrydy" (and I assume based on the capitalization, 3 things for you). With regular use, your mind creates a mapping of "thing" to "keypresses". As long as a password remains a 9-thing bag of characters in your head, those 9 things will be slower to type than a 3-thing set of letters. But if you can create mental meaning from them, your password-typing speed will increase to where it's indistinguishable from normal words. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus... (Quick edit: "WrtCdEvrydy" just dropped to "3 things" for me right after posting, I now have "Wrt" in my head as the fake-word "wirt".)

AdmiralAsshat 8y ago

Given the price they're going for, having a Model M seems more like a status symbol now than a true devotion to mechanical keyboards. I had a co-worker with a Model M. It was certainly nice (and heavy), but I had a hard time justifying paying 3x the price for it when my $40 generic mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches (or maybe they were "Blue" Cherry-like switches, come to think of it) were nearly as good. I suppose if my keyboard starts to crap out in three years then maybe the Model M would be the more prudent investment, but, for the moment, it's holding strong, and I didn't need to break the bank to get one.

jjuhl 8y ago

I used to own a model M back in the early 90's. It was a joy to use and you could drive a tank over it without damaging it. Unfortunately I lost it during a house move. These days I settle for keyboards with Cherry MX blue switches. But I still want a model M with springs.

psankar 8y ago

The best keyboard that I have personally used is the old IBM Thinkpad keys. They had a slight curve for accommodating touch typists, instead of the flat keys in the modern keyboards. I could type at 100+ WPM in the old IBM thinkpads even when I am sitting in a dark room. I struggle to reach around 80 wpm in the macbook pro and modern lenovo thinkpads. The new macbook pro with the touchbar is the worst keyboard that I have ever used and I ended up buying an old model Macbook just because of the keyboard. I wish Microsoft or Google releases a good developer oriented laptop with proper keyboard (Preferably licensing the old IBM thinkpad keyboard style) and full-size buttons for arrow keys, boatloads of extensible RAM and a gorgeous screen. Apple seem to not care anymore about macbooks :(

barrkel 8y ago
I have never seen a keyboard without curved keys. Laptops with flat keys, yes, but laptop keyboards are a last resort.
- opencl 8y ago
  Then you've had the good fortune of never having to use an Apple desktop keyboard made in the past 10 years.
  - jsjohnst 8y ago
    Call me weird if you must, but I truly appreciate the Apple keyboards. Probably my favorite is the new model Bluetooth keyboard. I love the very very minimal key travel and low activation pressure. I used to have to use “natural” keyboards to keep carpel tunnel at bay, but the previously mentioned features seem to accomplish the same goal. My only nit with it is that I wish it was a full size keyboard including numeric keypad, but I’ve gotten used to not having it now. I also mostly like the new laptop keyboards too, but they can be a bit noisy for my taste when I’m typing fast, especially on the 2016 12” MacBook.
    - freehunter 8y ago

nlh 8y ago

I’ve recently fallen down the deep dark rathole that is mechanical keyboards and I heartily encourage others to do the same :) For those of us that spend a majority of our working (and leisure?) time typing, it only makes sense (ha!) to customize and optimize the tool you use to accomplish that. This is apparently a love/hate thing for some, but I really like the feel (and sound — THOCK) of Topre keyboards. They use electrostatic capacitive switches and are super satisfying. Also it’s kinda fun to build crazy customized stuff :) Shameless plug - check out /r/mechanicalkeyboards to catch a glimpse of the depths of obsession that exist...

tyfon 8y ago

My last genuine Model M was from 1987 and it died a few years ago. I bought a Das Keyboard and it has been a great replacement :) The layout of Model M and the tactile feedback is simply the best.. I type much faster on it than anything else.

philjohn 8y ago

Model M's are great - but if you use one in an open plan office then there's a special place in hell for you ...

diggernet 8y ago
Open plan is a special place in hell. Might as well use a decent keyboard while you are there.
- bitwize 8y ago
  I tell people that there's a circle of hell reserved for people who steal office supplies and take long shits on the job. It consists of an open-plan office where you have to prepare long complicated reports that are due by COB each day, working cheek-by-jowl with your fellow damned. Behind you, there are rows of demons eating apples, crisps, pretzels, nuts, and other crunchy things. Maybe some of the demons should be working Model M keyboards, as well.
  - diggernet 8y ago
    Don't forget the demons drinking from sports bottles that gurgle.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

My first computer was an IBM PC XT, so I have a nostalgic attachment to the sound and feel of my Model-M. No, neither of the M's I own are the one from my first PC, I acquired them from a former employer who had a small pile tucked away in a storage closet that everyone had forgotten about.

walshemj 8y ago
I think the XT was a model F
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I think you're right that they shipped with an F, but mine was used (I had it in the 90s) and it came with an M.

bitcharmer 8y ago

I've used computers for the past 30 years and having switched to ultra flat keyboards (cherry strait being my personal choice) of modern age I just can't see how old type mechanical keyboards can beat the experience. Can someone explain to me what advantages draw them to mechanical keyboards? Not hating, just trying to understand the phenomenon.

ddon 8y ago
I think this is mostly because of a sound old keys make.
Ardren 8y ago
1. They feel really nice to type on 2. They are often very well built I have a ortho chiclet keyboard which I think is pretty nice, and miles ahead of any membrane keyboard. But 99% of the time I still end up using mechanical keyboards.
- bitcharmer 8y ago
  > 1. They feel really nice to type on Ok, I guess this is as subjective as it gets, but don't you think that flat keyboard with small key depression and quick reaction time beats mechanical in terms of typing speed?
  - Ardren 8y ago
    I really don't know which is meant to be quicker. But rarely when typing am I constrained by the length of travel or weight of the keys (within reason). So it (almost) all comes down to what feels nicer.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    Old keyboards aren't flat intentionally. It's because the profile of the keys is designed to make them easier to type on (so your fingers have to move less distance to reach all the keys). If flat was better, keyboards would have just been flat from the beginning. It would make manufacturing easier, after all.

jaclaz 8y ago

The sad part is that in my case (while still using an original Model M from PS/2, circa 1992)it is some thirty years younger than me. Only for the record, there are guys specialized in procuring, restoring and reselling Model M's: https://clickykeyboards.com/ https://clickykeyboards.com/

Yhippa 8y ago

I grew up using the Model M's in various computer labs. For my own computers I didn't have enough money so I stuck with membrane keyboards. I recently got some Cherry MX browns. Nothing is like that Model M IMO. It is probably straight nostalgia thinking about it. I've tried nearly every keyboard type due to working in consulting and using all kinds of laptops and desktops but I have a new personal favorite: the Chromebook Pixel keyboard. It feels like sex to type on.

anon2600 8y ago

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=123223579776&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111 http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2...

bitwize 8y ago

Ah, the Model M. The red Swingline stapler of techies. Hint: If you think you "need"a Model M, or even a Cherry MX blue board, YOU'RE TYPING TOO HARD. Get an Apple keyboard and practice typing with a light touch.

wilsonnb2 8y ago
Or maybe different people have different keyboard preferences.

znpy 8y ago

Since we're talking Model M, I will leave here my two cents about this whole mechanical keyboard wave that's been going on for some years now. And before everyone downvotes me: - yes, I own a mechanical keyboard (more than one, actually). - Yes, one of them is a Model M. I also own an Unicomp Endura Pro (the one with the TrackPoint). - Yes I have used some other Cherry-based keyboard (cherry blue and another color I didn't care remembering) - Yes I have used a Topre-based keyboard. Well, here is my two cents: mechanical keyboard are pointless. It's one of those memes of this industry (like stickers on laptops). While I acknowledge that some membrane keyboard typing experience are atrocious, sometimes it's just a matter of brand/model. For example the "Dell Business Multimedia Keyboard" typing experience is remarkably good (link: https://www.amazon.com/KB522-Dell-Business-Multimedia-Compatible/dp/B00APNV312/ref=sr_1_7 https://www.amazon.com/KB522-Dell-Business-Multimedia-Compat...). Quite frankly, I'd throw my Endura Pro in the trash can if that Dell Keyboard was available with the addition of a TrackPoint. Mechanical keyboards offer no real typing aid, no speed-up, they are heavy, noisy (the "hey everybody look at me" kind of noisy), they have unnecessary accessories (rgb lighting wave effect? but why?) and above all they are unreasonably expensive. Quite frankly, the best keyboard I have used so far is the ThinkPad USB Keyboard (1st gen, basically an X220 keyboard within a nice enclosure with a decent palmrest). It's light and checks all of my boxes. And it's not louder than a regular keyboard.

freehunter 8y ago
I had a Model M back in the days when you could still buy a real Model M, and I was happy to get rid of it. I think everyone should use whatever type of keyboard fits them best and I'd never tell anyone they're using their keyboard wrong if that's the keyboard they like, but my favorite keyboard is the one on my 2015 rMBP. (disclosure, I've never used the keyboard on the brand new Macbook so I have no opinion on that) I was glad to get rid of my Model M not only because, like you said, it was obnoxiously loud, but also because the keys were so damn heavy. Every mechanical keyboard I've used, I feel the same way on. I end up feeling like I'm forcing my fingers down, which tires out my wrists and forearms. Typing on a previous-generation Macbook keyboard, the keys respond almost the second I touch them, with barely any pressure needed at all. It feels a lot nicer and more responsive. I'm sure eventually I could find a really nice mechanical keyboard I like, but yeah, they're really expensive so I don't want to buy a bunch of them. I personally don't like the feeling or the sound of typing on a typewriter, which mechanical keyboards feel like to me. I'm very happy with my current laptop's keyboard. Along the same vein, my 2013 MBP with the mechanical trackpad click is awful and hurts my finger over time when I click it. I much prefer the new force touch trackpad that doesn't really click, since it takes a lot less pressure to activate.

tombert 8y ago

My keyboard at work is a 122-key IBM Model F. I bought a relatively expensive adapter to plug it into a modern computer, and I don't regret it at all. While I know there was a bit of a reboot-project a year or two ago, other than that there really hasn't been anything that quite matches the feel of the Model F, and it's an absolute joy to type on. It's also a wonderful tool to make a lot of noise and annoy coworkers, so it's great on two fronts. The way I figure it is that I spend a majority of my day typing on a keyboard, so it's worth it to me to have the tool that feels right to me.

clircle 8y ago

I have not used a lot of mechanical keyboards, but I think there is a spectrum where laptop flat keyboards are on one end and clacky big mechanical keyboards are on the other end. For some reason I find that I like keyboards somewhere in the middle -- boards with good key travel but also a fair bit of mush in the key presses. Currently rotating between Topres and MX Brown switches this year.

paulie_a 8y ago

If that is a clicky keyboard and work with others that is grounds to be fired.

bagosm 8y ago
And I still can't find any advantages (even in the article) except "you have to try it". For me, if the "digging in" distance and spring-out resistance is satisfactory it's a good keyboard. I only can't stand the laptop flat ones

rbanffy 8y ago

I really wish someone resurrected the beam spring keyboards. I'm quite sure all design patents on those are long expired.

rbanffy 8y ago

It's a matter of taste, but I love my Unicomp "Battleship" PC-122 keyboard. It's noisy, but it feels great and the sound is reminiscent of a time when computers were built to last rather than being thrown away to be recycled when they break. But then I'm a nostalgic.

foobarbecue 8y ago

This article talked a lot about keyboards, but failed to say why. What is the advantage of a Model M? I used one for a long time, and it's in the closet now. I can type faster on modern keyboards, because my fingers don't move as far. I suspect the only real reason to use a Model M is perceived "hacker cred."

nwah1 8y ago

After trying a few different brands of mechanical keyboard, I found WASD Keyboards to be very sturdy and customizable. I have my configuration setup in a Model M style, but with Cherry clear switches. Although, I would love doubleshot PBT caps for the colemak layout, but that is not available. Other caps tend to fade quickly. I'm also interested in trying other switches.

O1111OOO 8y ago

Interesting that there's no discussion on the size/shape of the [Enter/Return] key. My first computer in the 80s came with a larger, L-Shaped [Enter] key[0]. Didn't think much of it at the time until all I saw afterwards was the thinner, bar-shaped style. I think part of the reason is that I never use the right-hand shiftKey - which has always seemed obnoxiously large (because I never use it). Also not a keyboard junkie, I always type on whatever keyboard the computer/laptop comes with. To this day, I do miss the larger [Enter/Return] key but can't justify carrying an extra keyboard because of a single annoying key. [0] https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z0VXC.jpg https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z0VXC.jpg

sbr464 8y ago

Totally bought one from ClickyKeyboards this morning after reading. Thanks for the write up. Currently switch between a Vortex VTG-8200 and the iMac Pro keyboard. The vortex is nice. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2451 https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...

yial 8y ago

I use a model M as well! I have some that I saved from an old office of mine, but sadly I didn’t save all of them. (They had thrown out 20-25 the week before while I was on vacation. I guess that’s what happens when you miss out on spring cleaning).

IdontRememberIt 8y ago

Is there a keyboard which has solved the issue of the noise?Also, do you know any keyboard with a higher typing surface to allow less precise positioning of the fingers? Today, my prefered keyboard (for coding) is the one on my Lenovo X1 carbon. Silent, precise but "fault tolerant". Very impressive. Only issue is the layout a full keyboard would be way better.