5 ms·

Drugs should not be criminalised. They should be regulated. There's no fundamental reason that drugs are any worse than alcohol except social stigma and manip

Drugs should not be criminalised. They should be regulated. There's no fundamental reason that drugs are any worse than alcohol except social stigma and manipulation. A most bizarre example imo is Portugal. It is a fine-able offense to carry drugs (up to 10 days), but not criminal. Yet it is criminal to produce or distribute drugs. How does that work if consumption of the end product is not criminal. It's like it must be illegal on principle because drug cartels (or whatever), but we understand the end effect is not something criminal. Weird..

merinowool 8y ago
Portugal model is setup for illegal drug trade to flourish. I am worried that they might be sleepwalking into situation like there is in Mexico. Cartels getting richer and spreading through different economy sectors like a cancer.
- benbreen 8y ago
  Writing this from Lisbon. Is there any evidence that Portugal's policy has had a negative effect? Based on the New Yorker article about the issue a few years ago, I was under the impression that drug decriminalization in Portugal has been quite successful.
  - headsoup 8y ago
    No definitely positive effect from everything I've read. I just find it weird that with that the production and distribution of drugs is still illegal from that. Baby steps I guess
toomanybeersies 8y ago
It's not really bizarre at all. Portugal have made the decision that although drugs are bad (in their opinion), the users of drugs are not bad people, but rather the victims of bad people (the dealers).
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  "the users of drugs are not bad people, but rather the victims of bad people (the dealers)" Why need a user of drug be a victim of anyone? There's a difference between drug use (which can be constructive, or at least not harmful) and drug abuse. We should not equate the two. Drugs (especially psychedelics, but also cannabis) could be hugely beneficial to people when used constructively. When people benefit from such constructive drug use, they should be thanking those who provide them those drugs, and not putting those people in jail or demonizing them as "bad people".
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    > Drugs could be hugely beneficial to people when used constructively I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that the viewpoint of the Portuguese government is that any use of drugs (outside the legal ones) is abuse, and that the abusers are the victims. They're saying that it is still inherently bad for people to be taking drugs, but that drug users are not bad people.
flomble 8y ago
Portugal is constrained by international conventions on drug policy (largely pushed by the United States). Legalizing the production or distribution of drugs would engender serious adverse consequences, so they've tiptoed as far up to the line as they can without breaking the rules that bind them. While their policy relieves harm associated with addiction, it can't undermine the incentives for the criminal drug trade because absurd conventions prohibit them from doing so.

merinowool 8y ago

Portugal model is setup for illegal drug trade to flourish. I am worried that they might be sleepwalking into situation like there is in Mexico. Cartels getting richer and spreading through different economy sectors like a cancer.

benbreen 8y ago
Writing this from Lisbon. Is there any evidence that Portugal's policy has had a negative effect? Based on the New Yorker article about the issue a few years ago, I was under the impression that drug decriminalization in Portugal has been quite successful.
- headsoup 8y ago
  No definitely positive effect from everything I've read. I just find it weird that with that the production and distribution of drugs is still illegal from that. Baby steps I guess

toomanybeersies 8y ago

It's not really bizarre at all. Portugal have made the decision that although drugs are bad (in their opinion), the users of drugs are not bad people, but rather the victims of bad people (the dealers).

pmoriarty 8y ago
"the users of drugs are not bad people, but rather the victims of bad people (the dealers)" Why need a user of drug be a victim of anyone? There's a difference between drug use (which can be constructive, or at least not harmful) and drug abuse. We should not equate the two. Drugs (especially psychedelics, but also cannabis) could be hugely beneficial to people when used constructively. When people benefit from such constructive drug use, they should be thanking those who provide them those drugs, and not putting those people in jail or demonizing them as "bad people".
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  > Drugs could be hugely beneficial to people when used constructively I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that the viewpoint of the Portuguese government is that any use of drugs (outside the legal ones) is abuse, and that the abusers are the victims. They're saying that it is still inherently bad for people to be taking drugs, but that drug users are not bad people.

flomble 8y ago

Portugal is constrained by international conventions on drug policy (largely pushed by the United States). Legalizing the production or distribution of drugs would engender serious adverse consequences, so they've tiptoed as far up to the line as they can without breaking the rules that bind them. While their policy relieves harm associated with addiction, it can't undermine the incentives for the criminal drug trade because absurd conventions prohibit them from doing so.