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Crypto currencies is a solution to this problem and not just in porn. Some of my friends in the biz solely got interested in btc because of this. We have stil

Crypto currencies is a solution to this problem and not just in porn. Some of my friends in the biz solely got interested in btc because of this. We have still only a few customers using them though, so it's not a success yet. But for those who thing crypto is a solution in search for a problem: there it is.

simias 8y ago
Cryptocurrencies "solve" the issue by not supporting chargeback. It's not like chargeback is intrinsically tied to Visa and friends, they just realized that overall it was beneficial if the buyer felt more comfortable buying things because they have the peace of mind of being able to chargeback later if they feel they've been scammed. I often hear lack of chargeback being touted as a feature for cryptocurrencies but it's more like the lack of a feature. It's obviously beneficial if you're in the shoes of the seller but if it's so great then why does chargeback exist in the first place? Put yourselves in the shoes of a porn buyer, would you really put your billing info on bigtitties.ru if you knew that if they steal your money you have no recourse whatsoever? Also there's now a transaction on an immutable public ledger that might trivially show anybody who cares to look for it that you're buying incest porn online?
- woah 8y ago
  How is bigtitties.ru going to steal your money if you only send them payment as you consume the content? Chargebacks are very useful for the shipment of physical goods, but not relevant here.
  - edent 8y ago
    User sends crypto to unlock content. Then the site refuses to give the content, or gives significantly different content. With a credit card, you'd do a chargeback. With crypto there no protection from dodgy sites. So, no, not just for physical goods.
    - woah 8y ago
      This is the problem with HN’s blind hatred for cryptocurrency. People make weird assumptions, not understanding how it works. There are many different micropayment schemes under development or already operational. With these, you can pay per second of content. See spankchain
      - edent 8y ago
        It literally says on their front page "No Chargebacks".
- dorgo 8y ago
  I think chargebacks for credit cards are needed, because their model is based on trust. You give your credit card number to the seller und you have to trust that he pulls only the amount he promised he would pull. For Cryptocurrencies on the other hand, you never give you private key to somebody. You always decide yourself which amount to transfer. No chargeback is needed for this model. I have an EC-card and chargeback is only available for pull-transactions, not for push-transactions.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    There are many other reasons for chargebacks: Perhaps the product isn't what was advertised or not what the buyer expected. Perhaps the seller doesn't provide the product, either due to fraud, incompetence, or a technical problem. Perhaps there's simply a misunderstanding. EDIT: Apparently chargeback may be the major issue for porn payment processing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433794
  - Lazare 8y ago
    > I think chargebacks for credit cards are needed, because their model is based on trust. You give your credit card number to the seller und you have to trust that he pulls only the amount he promised he would pull. I've initiated chargebacks before, but overwhelmingly it's not because I've been overcharged (that only happened once and, ironically, by a company that subsequently launched an ICO...): It's because I did not receive the product/service, or it wasn't as advertised. And that is just as much of an issue with crypto. Keep in mind, in many cases the standard advise to consumers is to use credit, NOT cash, purely to be able to obtain the protections of chargebacks, but cash already has all the advantages you list as meaning chargebacks aren't needed for crypto.
- sametmax 8y ago
  Apple made a business out of "lack of features". Sometime less is more.
Lazare 8y ago
> Crypto currencies is a solution to this problem and not just in porn. By which you mean, the solution for the high rate of people initiating chargebacks is to just use a payment method which won't let them? I think the underlying problem is that people want to make chargebacks, not that Visa lets them. And if I'm right, then you'd expect to see customers refusing to switch, since from there point of view this isn't the solution to a problem, it's taking a solution away from them. > We have still only a few customers using them though, so it's not a success yet. Not a surprise, really, is it?
- sametmax 8y ago
  Charge back in porn are not by honest people. Unless you have worked in the industry you would not have a good idea of the size of the scam phenomenon there. It's way higher than in the regular market. Sites scaming customers has been solved mostly by communities organising and insta banning bad apples. The reverse is insolved. And yes, removing a gun will make people mug less.

simias 8y ago

Cryptocurrencies "solve" the issue by not supporting chargeback. It's not like chargeback is intrinsically tied to Visa and friends, they just realized that overall it was beneficial if the buyer felt more comfortable buying things because they have the peace of mind of being able to chargeback later if they feel they've been scammed. I often hear lack of chargeback being touted as a feature for cryptocurrencies but it's more like the lack of a feature. It's obviously beneficial if you're in the shoes of the seller but if it's so great then why does chargeback exist in the first place? Put yourselves in the shoes of a porn buyer, would you really put your billing info on bigtitties.ru if you knew that if they steal your money you have no recourse whatsoever? Also there's now a transaction on an immutable public ledger that might trivially show anybody who cares to look for it that you're buying incest porn online?

woah 8y ago
How is bigtitties.ru going to steal your money if you only send them payment as you consume the content? Chargebacks are very useful for the shipment of physical goods, but not relevant here.
- edent 8y ago
  User sends crypto to unlock content. Then the site refuses to give the content, or gives significantly different content. With a credit card, you'd do a chargeback. With crypto there no protection from dodgy sites. So, no, not just for physical goods.
  - woah 8y ago
    This is the problem with HN’s blind hatred for cryptocurrency. People make weird assumptions, not understanding how it works. There are many different micropayment schemes under development or already operational. With these, you can pay per second of content. See spankchain
    - edent 8y ago
      It literally says on their front page "No Chargebacks".
dorgo 8y ago
I think chargebacks for credit cards are needed, because their model is based on trust. You give your credit card number to the seller und you have to trust that he pulls only the amount he promised he would pull. For Cryptocurrencies on the other hand, you never give you private key to somebody. You always decide yourself which amount to transfer. No chargeback is needed for this model. I have an EC-card and chargeback is only available for pull-transactions, not for push-transactions.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  There are many other reasons for chargebacks: Perhaps the product isn't what was advertised or not what the buyer expected. Perhaps the seller doesn't provide the product, either due to fraud, incompetence, or a technical problem. Perhaps there's simply a misunderstanding. EDIT: Apparently chargeback may be the major issue for porn payment processing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433794
- Lazare 8y ago
  > I think chargebacks for credit cards are needed, because their model is based on trust. You give your credit card number to the seller und you have to trust that he pulls only the amount he promised he would pull. I've initiated chargebacks before, but overwhelmingly it's not because I've been overcharged (that only happened once and, ironically, by a company that subsequently launched an ICO...): It's because I did not receive the product/service, or it wasn't as advertised. And that is just as much of an issue with crypto. Keep in mind, in many cases the standard advise to consumers is to use credit, NOT cash, purely to be able to obtain the protections of chargebacks, but cash already has all the advantages you list as meaning chargebacks aren't needed for crypto.
sametmax 8y ago
Apple made a business out of "lack of features". Sometime less is more.

Lazare 8y ago

> Crypto currencies is a solution to this problem and not just in porn. By which you mean, the solution for the high rate of people initiating chargebacks is to just use a payment method which won't let them? I think the underlying problem is that people want to make chargebacks, not that Visa lets them. And if I'm right, then you'd expect to see customers refusing to switch, since from there point of view this isn't the solution to a problem, it's taking a solution away from them. > We have still only a few customers using them though, so it's not a success yet. Not a surprise, really, is it?

sametmax 8y ago
Charge back in porn are not by honest people. Unless you have worked in the industry you would not have a good idea of the size of the scam phenomenon there. It's way higher than in the regular market. Sites scaming customers has been solved mostly by communities organising and insta banning bad apples. The reverse is insolved. And yes, removing a gun will make people mug less.