4 ms·

There are dozens of easy alternatives, I can think of several off the top of my head 1. Allow no-chargeback services that must be text-message verified. 2. Ac

There are dozens of easy alternatives, I can think of several off the top of my head 1. Allow no-chargeback services that must be text-message verified. 2. Accept adult-content payments, but don't release the money until after a chargeback window (e.g. 60 days), thus isolating the credit card from any risk. 3. Pass-on the chargeback rate (I imagine it can't be higher than 20%) to those wishing to do business as a cost-of-business fee. The fact that these aren't happening to me suggests it's not primarily about money.

Godel_unicode 8y ago
I agree that your solutions are obvious; so obvious in fact that I find it highly unlikely that they didn't occur to patreon. What does the likelihood that they thought of these things and didn't do them suggest? Consider: All of those options require patreon to do significant work to accommodate that business on their platform. All of them also have significant profitability implications for everyone involved. All of them require vigilance to ensure that all content which should be subject to those rules is, and that you have clearly communicated the nuance of which charges are subject to which rules and fees. Still sound easy? Maybe you should apply for a job there!
gruez 8y ago
>1. Allow no-chargeback services that must be text-message verified. Doubt this is possible, considering the payment processor and the customer's bank are separate entities. Although 2 factor authentication for credit cards kinda exists in the form of 3d-secure, but even that's really flakey in terms of adoption (merchant, payment processor, banks). > 2. Accept adult-content payments, but don't release the money until after a chargeback window (e.g. 60 days), thus isolating the credit card from any risk. chargebacks can be initiated up to 120 days from time of purchase, so that's quite a long waiting time. plus it does nothing to prevent people using stolen credit cards to get stolen content. why pay $50/month to access "patron only" content when you can buy a stolen credit card for $1 and use that instead? >3. Pass-on the chargeback rate (I imagine it can't be higher than 20%) to those wishing to do business as a cost-of-business fee. this ignores the fixed chargeback fee ($25?) that merchants get hit with when a chargeback occurs. what will you do when a carder sends all his stolen credit card your way? finally, doing any of the above costs support reps, engineering time, etc., which only caters to a small % of potential merchants. so you end up with the situation we have today. "mainstream" processors who handle the 99% of non-risky merchants, and a few select payment processors that target the risky 1% niche.
- FooBadDev 8y ago
  Please do look outside US market. In India two factor authentication via a text message to bank registered mobile number of the customer is mandated by law. Chargebacks here are virtually unheard of, probably most customers here don't even know what a 'chargeback' is. The US is keeping its banking system primitive intentionally, as the government is hand in glove with greedy banks. Sending money whether to a business or an individual is free in India, for both parties.
  - stealthmodeclan 8y ago
    Not having a process for chargeback removes buyer protection. This will make people risk averse and only deal with big and trusted companies like Amazon and Flipkart. But in the US, I give my card to many small businesses knowing that I've chargeback as a tool. The businessess also ensure quality and delivery timing because payment processor is closely monitoring their chargeback rates. One friend told me that in India, banks can freeze your account without a court order, I am not talking about a loan or credit card default. Sending money is never free, there is always a cost associated with the activity. So which exact transaction is free?

Godel_unicode 8y ago

I agree that your solutions are obvious; so obvious in fact that I find it highly unlikely that they didn't occur to patreon. What does the likelihood that they thought of these things and didn't do them suggest? Consider: All of those options require patreon to do significant work to accommodate that business on their platform. All of them also have significant profitability implications for everyone involved. All of them require vigilance to ensure that all content which should be subject to those rules is, and that you have clearly communicated the nuance of which charges are subject to which rules and fees. Still sound easy? Maybe you should apply for a job there!

gruez 8y ago

>1. Allow no-chargeback services that must be text-message verified. Doubt this is possible, considering the payment processor and the customer's bank are separate entities. Although 2 factor authentication for credit cards kinda exists in the form of 3d-secure, but even that's really flakey in terms of adoption (merchant, payment processor, banks). > 2. Accept adult-content payments, but don't release the money until after a chargeback window (e.g. 60 days), thus isolating the credit card from any risk. chargebacks can be initiated up to 120 days from time of purchase, so that's quite a long waiting time. plus it does nothing to prevent people using stolen credit cards to get stolen content. why pay $50/month to access "patron only" content when you can buy a stolen credit card for $1 and use that instead? >3. Pass-on the chargeback rate (I imagine it can't be higher than 20%) to those wishing to do business as a cost-of-business fee. this ignores the fixed chargeback fee ($25?) that merchants get hit with when a chargeback occurs. what will you do when a carder sends all his stolen credit card your way? finally, doing any of the above costs support reps, engineering time, etc., which only caters to a small % of potential merchants. so you end up with the situation we have today. "mainstream" processors who handle the 99% of non-risky merchants, and a few select payment processors that target the risky 1% niche.

FooBadDev 8y ago
Please do look outside US market. In India two factor authentication via a text message to bank registered mobile number of the customer is mandated by law. Chargebacks here are virtually unheard of, probably most customers here don't even know what a 'chargeback' is. The US is keeping its banking system primitive intentionally, as the government is hand in glove with greedy banks. Sending money whether to a business or an individual is free in India, for both parties.
- stealthmodeclan 8y ago
  Not having a process for chargeback removes buyer protection. This will make people risk averse and only deal with big and trusted companies like Amazon and Flipkart. But in the US, I give my card to many small businesses knowing that I've chargeback as a tool. The businessess also ensure quality and delivery timing because payment processor is closely monitoring their chargeback rates. One friend told me that in India, banks can freeze your account without a court order, I am not talking about a loan or credit card default. Sending money is never free, there is always a cost associated with the activity. So which exact transaction is free?