4 ms·

Return question for you: do you believe as you imply that government exists in only two forms? Either a liberal democracy or authoritarianism?

woodandsteel 8y ago
No I don't. That's why my remark included "or what." But I listed those two because those are the two main types in the world today. Myself, I support liberal democracy in this battle. And let me ask you back, what type do you support?
- dmitrygr 8y ago
  I prefer a government that stays out of the way, does not tell the people how to live, whom to transact with, or how. One that occupies itself solely with external security of the country. There aren't such any out there. We'll get there, eventually, I hope.
outlace 8y ago
There’s surely a spectrum from authoritarianism to liberal democracy, but there’s also a case to be made for free vs not free countries: if you can get into a public Twitter spat with the President of your country, and not worry someone will come break your legs (or worse) the next day, I call that a free country. Everything else is not.
- RVuRnvbM2e 8y ago
  The thing with US free speech though is that it is mostly only allowed in specific, ineffectual circumstances - like Twitter or "free speech zones". Try doing something that is actually effective - like staging a protest - and you'll be charged with "unlawful demonstrating". How is that freedom? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/us/politics/womens-march-arrests-dc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/us/politics/womens-march-... There are plenty of countries around the world that have real free speech. China is of course much worse than the US, but I don't think the US is the gold standard here.
  - learc83 8y ago
    >Try doing something that is actually effective - like staging a protest - and you'll be charged with "unlawful demonstrating". How is that freedom? The 600 or so people who were arrested did so on purpose as part of the protest. They went there with the goal of being arrested and they staged a sit-in of a Senate office building in order to accomplish that goal. There were tens of thousands of other protesters marching through the streets who weren't arrested, asked to leave, or even bothered. >There are plenty of countries around the world that have real free speech. I don't know of a country in the world were taking over the atrium of a government building and refusing to leave when the police order you to wouldn't get you arrested. What countries are you thinking of?
    - _jahh 8y ago
      Op bloviates/ they probably hate / those United States
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    > The thing with US free speech though is that it is mostly only allowed in specific, ineffectual circumstances - like Twitter or "free speech zones". This isn't true at all. Turn on cable news and read newspapers editorials. Read HN and Facebook and Reddit. See all the demonstrations around the U.S. today. Yes, some people have more powerful voices than others - people lack the bandwidth to give equal attention to over 300 million neighbors - but pretty much anyone can say anything, anywhere.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dogma1138 8y ago
Of course there is a spectrum and more than one way to skin a cat, but when voicing a political opinion results in institutionalized punishment you can’t claim that the country is free regardless of any other circumstances. As someone else said here just the fact that you can get into a Twitter flame war with Trump proves the US is a free country not otherwise.

woodandsteel 8y ago

No I don't. That's why my remark included "or what." But I listed those two because those are the two main types in the world today. Myself, I support liberal democracy in this battle. And let me ask you back, what type do you support?

dmitrygr 8y ago
I prefer a government that stays out of the way, does not tell the people how to live, whom to transact with, or how. One that occupies itself solely with external security of the country. There aren't such any out there. We'll get there, eventually, I hope.

outlace 8y ago

There’s surely a spectrum from authoritarianism to liberal democracy, but there’s also a case to be made for free vs not free countries: if you can get into a public Twitter spat with the President of your country, and not worry someone will come break your legs (or worse) the next day, I call that a free country. Everything else is not.

RVuRnvbM2e 8y ago
The thing with US free speech though is that it is mostly only allowed in specific, ineffectual circumstances - like Twitter or "free speech zones". Try doing something that is actually effective - like staging a protest - and you'll be charged with "unlawful demonstrating". How is that freedom? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/us/politics/womens-march-arrests-dc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/us/politics/womens-march-... There are plenty of countries around the world that have real free speech. China is of course much worse than the US, but I don't think the US is the gold standard here.
- learc83 8y ago
  >Try doing something that is actually effective - like staging a protest - and you'll be charged with "unlawful demonstrating". How is that freedom? The 600 or so people who were arrested did so on purpose as part of the protest. They went there with the goal of being arrested and they staged a sit-in of a Senate office building in order to accomplish that goal. There were tens of thousands of other protesters marching through the streets who weren't arrested, asked to leave, or even bothered. >There are plenty of countries around the world that have real free speech. I don't know of a country in the world were taking over the atrium of a government building and refusing to leave when the police order you to wouldn't get you arrested. What countries are you thinking of?
  - _jahh 8y ago
    Op bloviates/ they probably hate / those United States
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > The thing with US free speech though is that it is mostly only allowed in specific, ineffectual circumstances - like Twitter or "free speech zones". This isn't true at all. Turn on cable news and read newspapers editorials. Read HN and Facebook and Reddit. See all the demonstrations around the U.S. today. Yes, some people have more powerful voices than others - people lack the bandwidth to give equal attention to over 300 million neighbors - but pretty much anyone can say anything, anywhere.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dogma1138 8y ago

Of course there is a spectrum and more than one way to skin a cat, but when voicing a political opinion results in institutionalized punishment you can’t claim that the country is free regardless of any other circumstances. As someone else said here just the fact that you can get into a Twitter flame war with Trump proves the US is a free country not otherwise.