4 ms·

It's even worse in (some parts of?) Germany. Most apartments come without a kitchen. The law says that they have to provide a sink and a stove, and they provi

It's even worse in (some parts of?) Germany. Most apartments come without a kitchen. The law says that they have to provide a sink and a stove, and they provide the cheapest stove there is and a little pedestal sink. You're expected to ask the landlord to remove these and order a kitchen, with all of the cabinets, countertops, sink, refrigerator, washing machine, and stove. When you move, you either try to take it all apart and make it fit in your new apartment, or try to sell it to the next tenant. With first month's rent, 3 months security deposit, and a kitchen, moving in to an apartment is very expensive.

andybak 8y ago
It's very hard to get unstuck from a local maximum
bumblebritches5 8y ago
3 months security deposit?! In the U.S. you pay your first and last months rent, plus 1 month's rent worth of a security deposit...
st26 8y ago
Are the cabinets, countertops, sinks, etc very different in German apartments? (Simpler, less customized, more minimal) You're practically describing a full kitchen remodel in the US, which might run $10,000-20,000, or so I hear, with at least a week of labor...
- Slartie 8y ago
  It depends on the kitchen size and your expectations. Your price range describes kitchens that we would never buy for a rental apartment, but only for a self-owned one or a house you bought. The more typical kitchens in rental apartments cost between 1000-6000€, and take one or two days to build up (for a professional, although a lot of people do large parts of the work themselves or have talented friends do it, so it takes a little longer but is cheaper). Many times people also bring their old appliances from their old kitchens with them, so they only need to buy the cabinets and stuff. It still is one of the big pain points in moving: what happens with the old kitchen, and where do I get a new one from?
  - st26 8y ago
    Thanks for the reply. Still hard to imagine! The cabinets and counters in particular, the mind boggles. I completely agree, it sounds like a huge pain point.
jen729w 8y ago
But don’t you tend to stay there longer? Whereas here (Australia) it’s not uncommon to move every year – don’t anyone dare argue with me there, I speak from bitter experience – my understanding is that in Germany people tend to lease a place for 5, 10, more years?
- rmccue 8y ago
  > Whereas here (Australia) it’s not uncommon to move every year – don’t anyone dare argue with me there, I speak from bitter experience Can confirm; you get pretty sick of moving every 6/12 months, but on the plus side, you do get a decent amount of variety. :)
  - thirdsun 8y ago
    That sounds horrible. I'd have no intention to make the place nice, to truly make it my home - what's the point if I'm probably elsewhere in a year?
mynewtb 8y ago
Most? I would say 'some' rather. It definitely was not the case in any of the 15 moves I took part in.

andybak 8y ago

It's very hard to get unstuck from a local maximum

bumblebritches5 8y ago

3 months security deposit?! In the U.S. you pay your first and last months rent, plus 1 month's rent worth of a security deposit...

st26 8y ago

Are the cabinets, countertops, sinks, etc very different in German apartments? (Simpler, less customized, more minimal) You're practically describing a full kitchen remodel in the US, which might run $10,000-20,000, or so I hear, with at least a week of labor...

Slartie 8y ago
It depends on the kitchen size and your expectations. Your price range describes kitchens that we would never buy for a rental apartment, but only for a self-owned one or a house you bought. The more typical kitchens in rental apartments cost between 1000-6000€, and take one or two days to build up (for a professional, although a lot of people do large parts of the work themselves or have talented friends do it, so it takes a little longer but is cheaper). Many times people also bring their old appliances from their old kitchens with them, so they only need to buy the cabinets and stuff. It still is one of the big pain points in moving: what happens with the old kitchen, and where do I get a new one from?
- st26 8y ago
  Thanks for the reply. Still hard to imagine! The cabinets and counters in particular, the mind boggles. I completely agree, it sounds like a huge pain point.

jen729w 8y ago

But don’t you tend to stay there longer? Whereas here (Australia) it’s not uncommon to move every year – don’t anyone dare argue with me there, I speak from bitter experience – my understanding is that in Germany people tend to lease a place for 5, 10, more years?

rmccue 8y ago
> Whereas here (Australia) it’s not uncommon to move every year – don’t anyone dare argue with me there, I speak from bitter experience Can confirm; you get pretty sick of moving every 6/12 months, but on the plus side, you do get a decent amount of variety. :)
- thirdsun 8y ago
  That sounds horrible. I'd have no intention to make the place nice, to truly make it my home - what's the point if I'm probably elsewhere in a year?

mynewtb 8y ago

Most? I would say 'some' rather. It definitely was not the case in any of the 15 moves I took part in.