6 ms·

It seems highly improbably that the people working on fonts and design would otherwise be working on suspend/resume. Medium severity sounds right for a bug tha

It seems highly improbably that the people working on fonts and design would otherwise be working on suspend/resume. Medium severity sounds right for a bug that only affects users with certain hardware. High severity should be reserved for things with a wider impact, or else it loses its meaning.

sandGorgon 16y ago
ordinarily I would agree, but there are a LOT of affected users with suspend/resume problems. Now, it might be statistically true that there are exponentially more people who are working on desktops - but there are an insignificant number of people using Ubuntu on laptops. Why this bug is particularly significant is that the bug affects people with across very different hardware configurations, manufacturer and model. Still, I grant that I do not know how does one figure out the issues with wider impact: but this particular one has 77 people marked on the "affects me" list. That is not an insignificant number (not the total number of people affected, but rather who bothered to search the tracker and then file a bug)
dkarl 16y ago
The number of users affected is unknown, but the list of laptops mentioned in that thread is pretty varied, and it makes Ubuntu unusable for those folks. I know OSS needs to be more attentive to aesthetics, but let's not forget that "Ew, I just can't STAND these fonts" is a different kind of unusable from "I tried six obscure workarounds listed in a bug report, but none worked, so I installed a different OS." Using a laptop exclusively as one's primary computer is extremely common these days. If showstopper bugs are tolerated on laptops, the perception of Linux viability for non-tinkerers is going to regress back to five or ten years ago when it was common to encounter bugs like this in a desktop install.
- bad_user 16y ago
  For what is worth, suspend/resume works on my laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 (a Dell Inspiron 1525) and it was completely broken in Debian testing.
  - auxbuss 16y ago
    For what is worth, suspend/resume works on my laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 (Sony Vaio F-series) and it is completely broken in Ubuntu 10.10. Touché.
    - metamemetics 16y ago
      For what it's worth, the battery lasts half as long in Ubuntu than Windows (Dell Studio XPS 16). Also the fan is always on moderately loud even if I am only browsing the web or the lid is closed, and it heats up under the trackpad more than Windows to a degree that is annoying.
      - eru 16y ago
        Have you tried different cpu governors?
- jsz0 16y ago
  Poor sleep/wake stability was the single biggest reason I gave up on Linux. I was running Ubuntu on my HP nc8430 and had to rush out the door so I closed the lid and didn't wait to make sure it went to sleep properly. I tossed my backpack into my car and when I came back a few hours later I found out the machine never went to sleep. It got so hot that the enclosure actually melted and warped. Probably lucky it didn't catch on fire in there. Amazingly the machine still worked but the physical damage to the enclosure prevents the lid from closing properly and it won't sit flat on a desk anymore.
  - wwortiz 16y ago
    Not to take anything away from the problem but if your machine got so hot it melted because it was on that sounds more like a hardware problem.
    - niels_olson 16y ago
      Not to take away from either of you, but I had a very similar problem with Windows XP on a Dell Inspiron 9300. I would open my insulated laptop backpack, at least once every few months, to find a computer too hot to touch and the smell of baking foamcore. I have not had that problem with Ubuntu, and it has been running on that machine since 7.04.
    - jsz0 16y ago
      It was compounded by a hot day and being inside a backpack. The problem I was having at the time was a hard lockup of the system on sleep maybe 30-40% of the time due to the ATI graphics driver. My best guess is once the machine hard locked ACPI was unavailable to auto-shutdown the machine once the CPU passed its threshold so it ran until the battery died instead.
lg 16y ago
fwiw, all these laptop issues (especially this suspend/resume bug after I upgraded to Hardy) were what convinced me to get a mac. The only people I know with problem-free linux systems are desktop users.
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  FWIW, I've been a problem free laptop user of Ubuntu for two years running now. I have an older Dell laptop with the Intel Centrino chipset, Intel wifi, Intel graphics, etc, and everything on it has just worked out of the box since 8.04. It's also the only Linux machine in my house that uses KMS [1], so I get a nice, fast, high resolution display/splash/vte from the moment grub initializes the kernel. All of my desktops have Nvidia cards which also work out of the box with KMS, but enabling the official binary drivers for 3D performance breaks KMS. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting
- bad_user 16y ago
  That's not true. I have a one year old Dell Inspiron 1525 with Ubuntu. Not the best laptop ever but at least since Ubuntu 9.10 ... 3D graphics worked out of the box (open-source, Intel), Wifi worked out of the box (not so on OpenSuse or Debian), the built-in webcam worked out of the box, practically everything is up and running as soon as you install Ubuntu, no extra configuration required. Not only that, but I also got an external 3G modem from Vodafone, that also worked out of the box. As I've said before ... there are plenty of configurations that are running just fine with Ubuntu, but if you're going to shop at random of course you're going to have problems. Heck ... my external 3G modem wasn't compatible with Vista out of the box, you had to search for an updated driver on the Internet.
  - dkarl 16y ago
    Apparently some people have laptops that worked great with earlier Ubuntu releases but don't work after an upgrade. That's scary to me -- I could do careful research and buy a laptop now, only to have an upgrade make my laptop unusable. Then at the very best I'd have to downgrade and be stuck on an earlier version of Ubuntu while they classify it as a medium-priority bug and leave it broken in subsequent releases. P.S. To make this more specific, I've been thinking about buying a refurbished Thinkpad, and one of the commenters on the bug says suspend/resume stopped working on his T61p in Lucid and remains broken in Maverick.
FooBarWidget 16y ago
Suspend/resume has been broken in various ways on various hardware for years. This makes me wonder whether they're bugs in Linux or bugs in hardware for which each one requires a different workaround. In case of the latter I can imagine why things stay broken for such a long time.
- loire280 16y ago
  In my experience, suspend/resume breaks because of device drivers failing to put their components to sleep properly. The biggest culprit is wireless drivers. It may be that as they improve wireless support by including more drivers and making it easier to use proprietary ones, they're making the suspend/resume problem harder and harder. I've fixed several problems like this on a per-machine basis, but the fixes are specific to each piece of hardware (read: "this obviously would break something for someone else if included in the distro").

sandGorgon 16y ago

ordinarily I would agree, but there are a LOT of affected users with suspend/resume problems. Now, it might be statistically true that there are exponentially more people who are working on desktops - but there are an insignificant number of people using Ubuntu on laptops. Why this bug is particularly significant is that the bug affects people with across very different hardware configurations, manufacturer and model. Still, I grant that I do not know how does one figure out the issues with wider impact: but this particular one has 77 people marked on the "affects me" list. That is not an insignificant number (not the total number of people affected, but rather who bothered to search the tracker and then file a bug)

dkarl 16y ago

The number of users affected is unknown, but the list of laptops mentioned in that thread is pretty varied, and it makes Ubuntu unusable for those folks. I know OSS needs to be more attentive to aesthetics, but let's not forget that "Ew, I just can't STAND these fonts" is a different kind of unusable from "I tried six obscure workarounds listed in a bug report, but none worked, so I installed a different OS." Using a laptop exclusively as one's primary computer is extremely common these days. If showstopper bugs are tolerated on laptops, the perception of Linux viability for non-tinkerers is going to regress back to five or ten years ago when it was common to encounter bugs like this in a desktop install.

bad_user 16y ago
For what is worth, suspend/resume works on my laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 (a Dell Inspiron 1525) and it was completely broken in Debian testing.
- auxbuss 16y ago
  For what is worth, suspend/resume works on my laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 (Sony Vaio F-series) and it is completely broken in Ubuntu 10.10. Touché.
  - metamemetics 16y ago
    For what it's worth, the battery lasts half as long in Ubuntu than Windows (Dell Studio XPS 16). Also the fan is always on moderately loud even if I am only browsing the web or the lid is closed, and it heats up under the trackpad more than Windows to a degree that is annoying.
    - eru 16y ago
      Have you tried different cpu governors?
jsz0 16y ago
Poor sleep/wake stability was the single biggest reason I gave up on Linux. I was running Ubuntu on my HP nc8430 and had to rush out the door so I closed the lid and didn't wait to make sure it went to sleep properly. I tossed my backpack into my car and when I came back a few hours later I found out the machine never went to sleep. It got so hot that the enclosure actually melted and warped. Probably lucky it didn't catch on fire in there. Amazingly the machine still worked but the physical damage to the enclosure prevents the lid from closing properly and it won't sit flat on a desk anymore.
- wwortiz 16y ago
  Not to take anything away from the problem but if your machine got so hot it melted because it was on that sounds more like a hardware problem.
  - niels_olson 16y ago
    Not to take away from either of you, but I had a very similar problem with Windows XP on a Dell Inspiron 9300. I would open my insulated laptop backpack, at least once every few months, to find a computer too hot to touch and the smell of baking foamcore. I have not had that problem with Ubuntu, and it has been running on that machine since 7.04.
  - jsz0 16y ago
    It was compounded by a hot day and being inside a backpack. The problem I was having at the time was a hard lockup of the system on sleep maybe 30-40% of the time due to the ATI graphics driver. My best guess is once the machine hard locked ACPI was unavailable to auto-shutdown the machine once the CPU passed its threshold so it ran until the battery died instead.

lg 16y ago

fwiw, all these laptop issues (especially this suspend/resume bug after I upgraded to Hardy) were what convinced me to get a mac. The only people I know with problem-free linux systems are desktop users.

nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
FWIW, I've been a problem free laptop user of Ubuntu for two years running now. I have an older Dell laptop with the Intel Centrino chipset, Intel wifi, Intel graphics, etc, and everything on it has just worked out of the box since 8.04. It's also the only Linux machine in my house that uses KMS [1], so I get a nice, fast, high resolution display/splash/vte from the moment grub initializes the kernel. All of my desktops have Nvidia cards which also work out of the box with KMS, but enabling the official binary drivers for 3D performance breaks KMS. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting
bad_user 16y ago
That's not true. I have a one year old Dell Inspiron 1525 with Ubuntu. Not the best laptop ever but at least since Ubuntu 9.10 ... 3D graphics worked out of the box (open-source, Intel), Wifi worked out of the box (not so on OpenSuse or Debian), the built-in webcam worked out of the box, practically everything is up and running as soon as you install Ubuntu, no extra configuration required. Not only that, but I also got an external 3G modem from Vodafone, that also worked out of the box. As I've said before ... there are plenty of configurations that are running just fine with Ubuntu, but if you're going to shop at random of course you're going to have problems. Heck ... my external 3G modem wasn't compatible with Vista out of the box, you had to search for an updated driver on the Internet.
- dkarl 16y ago
  Apparently some people have laptops that worked great with earlier Ubuntu releases but don't work after an upgrade. That's scary to me -- I could do careful research and buy a laptop now, only to have an upgrade make my laptop unusable. Then at the very best I'd have to downgrade and be stuck on an earlier version of Ubuntu while they classify it as a medium-priority bug and leave it broken in subsequent releases. P.S. To make this more specific, I've been thinking about buying a refurbished Thinkpad, and one of the commenters on the bug says suspend/resume stopped working on his T61p in Lucid and remains broken in Maverick.

FooBarWidget 16y ago

Suspend/resume has been broken in various ways on various hardware for years. This makes me wonder whether they're bugs in Linux or bugs in hardware for which each one requires a different workaround. In case of the latter I can imagine why things stay broken for such a long time.

loire280 16y ago
In my experience, suspend/resume breaks because of device drivers failing to put their components to sleep properly. The biggest culprit is wireless drivers. It may be that as they improve wireless support by including more drivers and making it easier to use proprietary ones, they're making the suspend/resume problem harder and harder. I've fixed several problems like this on a per-machine basis, but the fixes are specific to each piece of hardware (read: "this obviously would break something for someone else if included in the distro").