4 ms·

Knowing nothing about this subject, I'm a bit confused by the parent: The first section talks about how incredible the performance is - "comically fast", "nuts

Knowing nothing about this subject, I'm a bit confused by the parent: The first section talks about how incredible the performance is - "comically fast", "nuts", etc. The second to last paragraph seems to say that it is easily done. Would you explain to easily confused, non-car-racing-enthusiasts? EDIT: In fact, I should ask: What is the significance of Nurburgring?

blattimwind 8y ago
> What is the significance of Nurburgring? It's both old and good. Almost a century of racing, setting and breaking records went down on it. (Also you can drive on it yourself w/ your own car).
- sandworm101 8y ago
  It is also not a tiny circuit with only a handful of corners. It is harder to tune a car for nurburgring than a nascar oval. So the theory goes that nurburgring results are more representative of overall (realworld) performance.
  - pmontra 8y ago
    It's also very bumpy. More like a normal road than a race track. A team manager once told me that not every driver can go full throttle on the longest straight because of the bumps.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      It may even be bumpier than the current standard for German public roads, which are generally of exceedingly high quality. Most people know about the unrestricted sections of the autobahn, and it is certainly fun to flog a rental Opel Corsa with a 1.0L 3-cylinder engine to 160kph, while being overtaken like you were standing still by various Porsches and big BMW/Mercedes/Audis. But the real fun is that the general speed limit is 100kph (62mph) off the autobahn and outside of towns, even for relatively small and curvy roads. Couple this with the generally very high standard of German roads, and you can have a hell of a lot of fun within the speed limit. I'm in southern Germany at the moment, visiting my girlfriend's family. The winding roads in the Schwarzwald area are absolutely amazing to drive, even in the little Corsa we're renting. You have to really flog it in second gear to get any speed going uphill, but it is so damn rewarding. And you notice so many other people doing the same, in all kinds of cars and on motorbikes. I know it's a bit of a cliché, but driving enjoyment really is part of the German mentality.
      - blattimwind 8y ago
        > It may even be bumpier than the current standard for German public roads, which are generally of exceedingly high quality. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/794/698/475.png http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/794/698/475... > But the real fun is that the general speed limit is 100kph (62mph) off the autobahn and outside of towns, even for relatively small and curvy roads. Well they certainly remain to exist, but sadly there is a tendency since ~10 years or so to stick a 70 speed limit anywhere where the road deviates the tiniest bit from a ruler. Nowadays they are often coupled with "no overtaking" signs. Apparently the level of driving skill has sunk so low, that people neither know how fast they can drive through a curve, nor can they realize for themselves that overtaking in a curve is forbidden anyway and they shouldn't need signs to remind them of that. > I'm in southern Germany at the moment, visiting my girlfriend's family. In the south road conditions are a bit better, but still many municipal and country roads are in either poor or piss poor condition.
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Up north, I expect the roads to be more similar to the ones in Denmark that I'm used to, ie. potholed, frost damaged and sort-of repaired. Honestly, you have no idea how good you have it road-wise, compared to Denmark or the UK or especially the US. Down here in the Schwarzwald/Schwaben area, they really are in amazing condition and the majority of roads are still 100kph or at least 80kph in the trickier sections. Sure, there are a few villages with blanket 30kph limits (WTF) and the occasional 70kph sections around tricky intersections. But other than that, it's very good still, and 100kph on some surprisingly curving roads. Mostly unlimited autobahn too, although I know they're reigning that in as well.
        sandworm101 8y ago
        >> Honestly, you have no idea how good you have it road-wise, compared to Denmark or the UK or especially the US. But roads are easy when in a small country with a dense population like Germany. Heck, you can drive from one side of Germany to the other in a single tank of gas. Compare that to properly large roads like those in Canada, or Russia. (I'd add Australia but the weather is so good there that they have no word for pothole.) How small Germany is compared to one of Canada's medium-sized provinces. https://mapfight.appspot.com/de-vs-british.columbia/germany-british-columbia-size-comparison https://mapfight.appspot.com/de-vs-british.columbia/germany-...
bonzini 8y ago
The record wasn't just beaten, it was shattered by 15%. That involves not just doing the straight parts a little bit faster and braking a little later; it means doing entire sections crazy fast. That's the difference between the record being easy to beat, and Porsche having lowered it by 1 minute and more.
ericcumbee 8y ago
The 919 was built originally to run in the LMP1-H class in the World Endurance Championship and the 24 hours of Le Mans. The WEC rules enforce some artifical performance limits on the car. For example they are limited on the amount of gasoline per lap they can use, and there is a max flow rate that is enforced by a fuel flow sensor. They are also limited in how much energy they can use per lap from the hybrid system. which is lower than the actual capacity of the hybrid system. for example you could watch the onboard with the telemetry that shows the battery status. They would come through Ford Chicane (The last before start finish at Le Mans) with the battery showing empty and then hit pit straight and come across start finish and the battery indicator would jump up to 1/4 or 1/2 full indicating that the car had harvested more power on that lap under braking than it was allowed to consume. According to Porsche PR the WEC specification car the ICE put out 500hp. the EVO car did 720. and the Hybrid system went from 400 to 440hp. Aero Development is also limited in WEC in not only the number of aero iterations you get per season, but what you can do like the size of the rear wing, and the rear diffuser. and of course they added a drag reduction system, that basically drops the rear wing out of the airflow on the straights to reduce drag. they were also able to cut the weight by 39KG by taking out the windshield wipers, headlights, air conditioner and all the electronics that the FIA/ACO mandates in the WEC. they also had a special tire. as a point of comparison the 919 in WEC spec qualified at SPA for the 6 hour race with a 3 lap average 1:54.097. the evo did it this year in 1:41.770.
maxxxxx 8y ago
"What is the significance of Nurburgring?" It's a very long and very tricky track. It has everything: superfast sections, slow sections, steep uphill and downhill, bumps, banking, often wet. If a car does well on this track it will do well almost everywhere. It's called the "green hell". I don't think there is another track worldwide left that can compare.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- vesrah 8y ago
  The Mountain Circuit on Isle of Man.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Equally legendary, often deadly, and also absolutely wouldn't even be considered if someone proposed it today. And the Nürburgring has various safety features. The Mountain Circuit has basically nothing, just a road.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      And accessible only for a few days a year.
  - King-Aaron 8y ago
    This is easily some of the craziest racing you're every going to see. There's zero margin for error and it generally highlights this every year.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
Most race tracks have perhaps 6-12 corners or so. The Nürburgring Nordschleife has 154. It's 20.8km long and has 300 meters of elevation change along its length. It is an absolute monster, and a grueling test of both car and driver. It's also so big, that you probably won't be able to see it at first on Google maps. Try zooming out a bit ;-)
RaceWon 8y ago
To drive a race car really, really fast requires rhythm. You have to be able tell when something is amiss Before it actually is, because then it is too late. Having rhythm is essential, so you need an database of events on that particular track, in that particular car in order to develop your rhythm. You need to have the track absolutely memorized to the extent that you can visualize every single inch of it as you are "driving" it in your imagination so that you can "bench race" it. It also requires anticipation; you have to know Exactly what the car is going to, in every situation, and that gives you the ability to make corrections Before the fact, because again; during is too late. Now couple these things with the sheer length, number of corners and top speed of the Nurburgring and you have an idea of what a lap like that takes.

blattimwind 8y ago

> What is the significance of Nurburgring? It's both old and good. Almost a century of racing, setting and breaking records went down on it. (Also you can drive on it yourself w/ your own car).

sandworm101 8y ago
It is also not a tiny circuit with only a handful of corners. It is harder to tune a car for nurburgring than a nascar oval. So the theory goes that nurburgring results are more representative of overall (realworld) performance.
- pmontra 8y ago
  It's also very bumpy. More like a normal road than a race track. A team manager once told me that not every driver can go full throttle on the longest straight because of the bumps.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    It may even be bumpier than the current standard for German public roads, which are generally of exceedingly high quality. Most people know about the unrestricted sections of the autobahn, and it is certainly fun to flog a rental Opel Corsa with a 1.0L 3-cylinder engine to 160kph, while being overtaken like you were standing still by various Porsches and big BMW/Mercedes/Audis. But the real fun is that the general speed limit is 100kph (62mph) off the autobahn and outside of towns, even for relatively small and curvy roads. Couple this with the generally very high standard of German roads, and you can have a hell of a lot of fun within the speed limit. I'm in southern Germany at the moment, visiting my girlfriend's family. The winding roads in the Schwarzwald area are absolutely amazing to drive, even in the little Corsa we're renting. You have to really flog it in second gear to get any speed going uphill, but it is so damn rewarding. And you notice so many other people doing the same, in all kinds of cars and on motorbikes. I know it's a bit of a cliché, but driving enjoyment really is part of the German mentality.
    - blattimwind 8y ago
      > It may even be bumpier than the current standard for German public roads, which are generally of exceedingly high quality. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/794/698/475.png http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/794/698/475... > But the real fun is that the general speed limit is 100kph (62mph) off the autobahn and outside of towns, even for relatively small and curvy roads. Well they certainly remain to exist, but sadly there is a tendency since ~10 years or so to stick a 70 speed limit anywhere where the road deviates the tiniest bit from a ruler. Nowadays they are often coupled with "no overtaking" signs. Apparently the level of driving skill has sunk so low, that people neither know how fast they can drive through a curve, nor can they realize for themselves that overtaking in a curve is forbidden anyway and they shouldn't need signs to remind them of that. > I'm in southern Germany at the moment, visiting my girlfriend's family. In the south road conditions are a bit better, but still many municipal and country roads are in either poor or piss poor condition.
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Up north, I expect the roads to be more similar to the ones in Denmark that I'm used to, ie. potholed, frost damaged and sort-of repaired. Honestly, you have no idea how good you have it road-wise, compared to Denmark or the UK or especially the US. Down here in the Schwarzwald/Schwaben area, they really are in amazing condition and the majority of roads are still 100kph or at least 80kph in the trickier sections. Sure, there are a few villages with blanket 30kph limits (WTF) and the occasional 70kph sections around tricky intersections. But other than that, it's very good still, and 100kph on some surprisingly curving roads. Mostly unlimited autobahn too, although I know they're reigning that in as well.
        sandworm101 8y ago
        >> Honestly, you have no idea how good you have it road-wise, compared to Denmark or the UK or especially the US. But roads are easy when in a small country with a dense population like Germany. Heck, you can drive from one side of Germany to the other in a single tank of gas. Compare that to properly large roads like those in Canada, or Russia. (I'd add Australia but the weather is so good there that they have no word for pothole.) How small Germany is compared to one of Canada's medium-sized provinces. https://mapfight.appspot.com/de-vs-british.columbia/germany-british-columbia-size-comparison https://mapfight.appspot.com/de-vs-british.columbia/germany-...

bonzini 8y ago

The record wasn't just beaten, it was shattered by 15%. That involves not just doing the straight parts a little bit faster and braking a little later; it means doing entire sections crazy fast. That's the difference between the record being easy to beat, and Porsche having lowered it by 1 minute and more.

ericcumbee 8y ago

The 919 was built originally to run in the LMP1-H class in the World Endurance Championship and the 24 hours of Le Mans. The WEC rules enforce some artifical performance limits on the car. For example they are limited on the amount of gasoline per lap they can use, and there is a max flow rate that is enforced by a fuel flow sensor. They are also limited in how much energy they can use per lap from the hybrid system. which is lower than the actual capacity of the hybrid system. for example you could watch the onboard with the telemetry that shows the battery status. They would come through Ford Chicane (The last before start finish at Le Mans) with the battery showing empty and then hit pit straight and come across start finish and the battery indicator would jump up to 1/4 or 1/2 full indicating that the car had harvested more power on that lap under braking than it was allowed to consume. According to Porsche PR the WEC specification car the ICE put out 500hp. the EVO car did 720. and the Hybrid system went from 400 to 440hp. Aero Development is also limited in WEC in not only the number of aero iterations you get per season, but what you can do like the size of the rear wing, and the rear diffuser. and of course they added a drag reduction system, that basically drops the rear wing out of the airflow on the straights to reduce drag. they were also able to cut the weight by 39KG by taking out the windshield wipers, headlights, air conditioner and all the electronics that the FIA/ACO mandates in the WEC. they also had a special tire. as a point of comparison the 919 in WEC spec qualified at SPA for the 6 hour race with a 3 lap average 1:54.097. the evo did it this year in 1:41.770.

maxxxxx 8y ago

"What is the significance of Nurburgring?" It's a very long and very tricky track. It has everything: superfast sections, slow sections, steep uphill and downhill, bumps, banking, often wet. If a car does well on this track it will do well almost everywhere. It's called the "green hell". I don't think there is another track worldwide left that can compare.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
vesrah 8y ago
The Mountain Circuit on Isle of Man.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Equally legendary, often deadly, and also absolutely wouldn't even be considered if someone proposed it today. And the Nürburgring has various safety features. The Mountain Circuit has basically nothing, just a road.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    And accessible only for a few days a year.
- King-Aaron 8y ago
  This is easily some of the craziest racing you're every going to see. There's zero margin for error and it generally highlights this every year.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

Most race tracks have perhaps 6-12 corners or so. The Nürburgring Nordschleife has 154. It's 20.8km long and has 300 meters of elevation change along its length. It is an absolute monster, and a grueling test of both car and driver. It's also so big, that you probably won't be able to see it at first on Google maps. Try zooming out a bit ;-)

RaceWon 8y ago

To drive a race car really, really fast requires rhythm. You have to be able tell when something is amiss Before it actually is, because then it is too late. Having rhythm is essential, so you need an database of events on that particular track, in that particular car in order to develop your rhythm. You need to have the track absolutely memorized to the extent that you can visualize every single inch of it as you are "driving" it in your imagination so that you can "bench race" it. It also requires anticipation; you have to know Exactly what the car is going to, in every situation, and that gives you the ability to make corrections Before the fact, because again; during is too late. Now couple these things with the sheer length, number of corners and top speed of the Nurburgring and you have an idea of what a lap like that takes.