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And yet without them we probably wouldn't have EVs today.

by cptskippy 8y ago

dirkgently 8y ago
Just like how, without Apple, we wouldn't have had rounded corners.
- cowmix 8y ago
  Pretty much the only reason any car manufacturer has ANY EV program is because of the threat of Tesla. Bob Lutz said w/o Tesla my Volt (or now Bolt) would not exist.
  - extra88 8y ago
    The regulatory pressure federally and by California to decrease emissions plus incentives to buy EVs matter too.
    - cowmix 8y ago
      The car companies just made compliance cars (and created astroturf org) to battle that. Until Tesla shamed them, they never really had to make serious effort.
      - extra88 8y ago
        Shaming is very different than presenting an actual threat which some people claim Tesla was or is.
        cowmix 8y ago
        When I say "shame" I mean the consensus from the auto industry was/is: 1) EVs are slow 2) EVs can go far on a single charge 3) EVs are ugly 4) Batteries degrade a lot over time 5) EVs are expensive. etc, etc, etc Tesla has knocked out most of those bullet points.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      > The regulatory pressure federally and by California to decrease emissions That pressure is dictated by the administration in power and the current administration has already started the process of rolling back the prior administration's regulations by changing CAFE requirements. In addition to that they've also questioned that Waiver that gives CARB it's authority. If successful they would strip CA of it's regulatory power. > plus incentives to buy EVs matter too. And those expire. Once Nissan hit's 300k units of the Leaf sold in the US they'll lose their credit and there will be very little motivation for people to purchase it. Unless they're able to significantly reduce the MSRP or dramatically increase the batteryt capacity, I wouldn't be surprised if the ceased production shortly after hitting 300k units.
CharlesW 8y ago
That seems unlikely, considering that the first "Golden Age" for EVs was in the late 1890s and early 1900s.[1] Musk was the first to use lithium-ion batteries for a highway-legal vehicle, but is that really a unique innovation that wouldn't have occurred to anyone else? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicl...
- cowmix 8y ago
  The 'innovation' is that car companies did not (and still do not) want to make EV cars. There's so much inertia behind ICE vehicles the incentive to make EVs is small. 1) Oil companies don't want them. 2) Dealerships don't want them. 3) Automakers don't want them. Tesla's energy has forced the issue.
  - cjhopman 8y ago
    > The 'innovation' is that car companies did not (and still do not) want to make EV cars Car companies want to sell cars that can make a profit. They're willing to wait for the technology to improve to the point that that is feasible.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      Unfortunately our planet isn't.
- justAnotherNET 8y ago
  Ah, so we’ve crossed from the “it’s impossible” to the “it was inevitable” stage of disruption :p

And yet without them we probably wouldn't have EVs today.

dirkgently 8y ago

Just like how, without Apple, we wouldn't have had rounded corners.

cowmix 8y ago
Pretty much the only reason any car manufacturer has ANY EV program is because of the threat of Tesla. Bob Lutz said w/o Tesla my Volt (or now Bolt) would not exist.
- extra88 8y ago
  The regulatory pressure federally and by California to decrease emissions plus incentives to buy EVs matter too.
  - cowmix 8y ago
    The car companies just made compliance cars (and created astroturf org) to battle that. Until Tesla shamed them, they never really had to make serious effort.
    - extra88 8y ago
      Shaming is very different than presenting an actual threat which some people claim Tesla was or is.
      - cowmix 8y ago
        When I say "shame" I mean the consensus from the auto industry was/is: 1) EVs are slow 2) EVs can go far on a single charge 3) EVs are ugly 4) Batteries degrade a lot over time 5) EVs are expensive. etc, etc, etc Tesla has knocked out most of those bullet points.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    > The regulatory pressure federally and by California to decrease emissions That pressure is dictated by the administration in power and the current administration has already started the process of rolling back the prior administration's regulations by changing CAFE requirements. In addition to that they've also questioned that Waiver that gives CARB it's authority. If successful they would strip CA of it's regulatory power. > plus incentives to buy EVs matter too. And those expire. Once Nissan hit's 300k units of the Leaf sold in the US they'll lose their credit and there will be very little motivation for people to purchase it. Unless they're able to significantly reduce the MSRP or dramatically increase the batteryt capacity, I wouldn't be surprised if the ceased production shortly after hitting 300k units.

CharlesW 8y ago

That seems unlikely, considering that the first "Golden Age" for EVs was in the late 1890s and early 1900s.[1] Musk was the first to use lithium-ion batteries for a highway-legal vehicle, but is that really a unique innovation that wouldn't have occurred to anyone else? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicl...

cowmix 8y ago
The 'innovation' is that car companies did not (and still do not) want to make EV cars. There's so much inertia behind ICE vehicles the incentive to make EVs is small. 1) Oil companies don't want them. 2) Dealerships don't want them. 3) Automakers don't want them. Tesla's energy has forced the issue.
- cjhopman 8y ago
  > The 'innovation' is that car companies did not (and still do not) want to make EV cars Car companies want to sell cars that can make a profit. They're willing to wait for the technology to improve to the point that that is feasible.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    Unfortunately our planet isn't.
justAnotherNET 8y ago
Ah, so we’ve crossed from the “it’s impossible” to the “it was inevitable” stage of disruption :p