5 ms·

Ask YC: Where to startup? (If not the US, then Canada or UK?)

27 points by aditya 19y ago

Given all the recent confusion and criticism of the US immigration fuc^Wpolicies, I'm wondering what everyone thinks is the best place outside the US to startup, and why? I know there's a pretty strong startup scene now in Canada and parts of Europe but if you were starting out, which would you prefer? The following reasons are based on my VERY limited understanding and experience with both these places, so feel free to correct, etc. Vancouver, BC Pros: Proximity to Seattle/Silicon Valley, good startup/entrepreneurial scene Cons: Bad weather, Bureaucracy, VCs are more risk-averse compare to SV, labor laws London, UK Pros: Burgeoning startup scene, situated mid-way between continental US and Europe (not sure why this is a pro), tech friendly VCs Cons: Bad weather, labor laws, expensive (!!) Any other places to consider?

xenoterracide 19y ago
well I (here in US) finally found a co-founder (which I hope turns out to be a good decision) in the UK. I'm not sure how we're going to make it work, but I think on advantage may be that if he gets venture capital in the UK it's worth ~twice as much if I spend it here.
akuhn 19y ago
Switzerland!!!
- nraynaud 19y ago
  Yes, I spent 2 years by the Swiss border and I went there a couple of times, it seems a fine country but expensive (and the interesting part speaks german, and they are not in the euro area). They have very good public transportation system, banks everywhere (but I don't know about VC stuff), mountains.
wallflower 19y ago
Strongly considering Argentina. Pros: No work visa required. Affordable lifestyle (eating out, tango clubs, outdoor events, music). Cost of living fairly low ($10k/yr reasonable living burn rate), Buenos Aires one of the world's largest metropolitan areas. Burgeoning expatriate population (pro or con, depending). Cons: Distance from family and friends (but some have said they'd love to visit!). Distance from established networks. Virtual business dealings. You need to learn another language to effectively be part of the community (not a programming one, a real language, Spanish and maybe their local hybrid).
- nraynaud 19y ago
  The last time a friend of mine went there for work (I personally only went there for an internship with a 90days tourist visa to avoid embassy bullshit), they asked him to apply for a visa with a bureaucracy like the one we have here in France : "you have to go back to France to apply for the visa there in the Paris embassy". If you want a economically more active country, you might consider Chile too, but I don't know anything about visas there.
  - wallflower 19y ago
    Hmm. Good to know. Overstaying tourist visas seems like a gray area.
    - nraynaud 19y ago
      I don't know, I stayed in the legal area. I was in Mendoza, so I went to Chile 2 week-ends to get a new 90 days visa each time, but I was legal : my internship wasn't compensated.
kirubakaran 19y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=129037 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=129037
truebosko 19y ago
Who cares where you startup? Some of the best startups have come from non-startup towns, like Shopify.com from Ottawa But to support the topic, here's some cities in eastern Canada where I think the startup culture is growing/swell: - Toronto, Ontario Pros: Great community, lots of get togethers and Barcamps. Good overall scene Cons: Crappy weather, rent and space costs are high. - Waterloo, Ontario Pros: Good community (Been to several Startup meets), a lot of younger people (It's a town with two major Universities in it plus a college) and a lot of cool more tech-oriented startups coming out of it. Cost of living is pretty cheap, nice small town. Lots of VC's in the area from what I've seen Cons: Perhaps a bit TOO small of a town (Only 90,000 people) - Montreal, Ontario Pros: Great european culture in the city itself. Awesome startup scene with lots of get togethers. Great technology and apps coming out of it already. Lots of people deeming Montreal the "Silicon Valley of Canada" (And yes, I know it can't compare AT ALL). Pretty cheap considering how big it is Cons: The city itself may not be for some people. Very busy. Hope that helps. Go Canada startups! :-)
- ojbyrne 19y ago
  Better speak French if you choose Montreal because of the language laws. Otherwise you might be in for a shock when you discover that speaking English is not an acceptable job requirement.
  - wallflower 19y ago
    My friend has been studying French for years and is quaking at the thought of the Test de connaissance du français
  - truebosko 19y ago
    That's true, but a lot of people in the core of Montreal also speak fluent English and there doesn't seem to be much attitude towards English speaking people (in that area) And hey, French isn't too hard to learn :)
    - ojbyrne 19y ago
      I'm a Bill 101 refugee (yes I'm old!) but I really loved living in Montreal. Other than the language issues (and you're probably correct in downplaying them) it's a great city. And (other than the language issues) a great place for startups.
m0nty 19y ago
You might find the UK is about to have a "nasty turn" WRT the lending crisis, increasing inflation and rising fuel costs. Taxes are very high also, and the government seem a bit clueless about the relationship between high earners and entrepreneurship, eg: http://telegraph.decenturl.com/non-domicile-tax-charge http://telegraph.decenturl.com/non-domicile-tax-charge All in all, not a bad place to live and do business but it might get worse, not better, for a few years.
sharpshoot 19y ago
London actually is starting to trump Boston in terms of Startup community quality. Strong in online advertising, gaming and mobile sectors. Super high quality investors here (Atomico, Index, Accel). Its expensive here, but if you want to take on an untapped market and expand your horizons, this is a tough yet good place to start.
lanej0 19y ago
Hey, I take exception to the bad weather comment! We're currently having a very nice spring. Lots of flowers. Yeah, I think the Valley has a certain magic to it, but if you're outside of there, and have no plans to move, it doesn't really matter where you end up. I've got a friend that moved to Panama (not to do a startup, but to work remotely). He loves it because his cost of living is low, it's got great infrastructure and a very nice climate.
- mixmax 19y ago
  And don't forget a great banking sytem. ;-)
tom_rath 19y ago
Canada is very business friendly, so drop that 'bureaucracy' concern. Forming a corporation took about 24 hours, with most of that time spent waiting for corporate name approval. Everything (except for getting a lawyer to notarize a form -- about $25 or so and five minutes of my time) was done online and there are TONS of resources to help start up. I think I spent around $200 in total to get all the corporate paperwork filed -- it was trivial. This site will provide all the information you need: http://corporationscanada.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/Intro http://corporationscanada.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/Intr... Annual corporate paperwork takes me just a few minutes each year (all done online) and taxes are likewise easy to put together. Any questions I've had about the company, taxes, etc. were quickly answered either through the Corporations Canada web site or after a brief e-mail dashed off to their contact e-mail address. As a sole founder of a software startup, I really couldn't be happier at my (by accident of birth) choice of nation. I've been able to just focus on building a business and quickly deal with the legal and tax stuff as minimally needed.
mixmax 19y ago
Does anyone have any experiences about Berlin? I'm thinking about going there.
- davidw 19y ago
  YC user 'wheels' is there - ask him (he's often on #startups, too).
  - danw 19y ago
    What's #startups?
    - davidw 19y ago
      IRC: irc.freenode.net, channel #startups
      - danw 19y ago
        Cheers, I'll check it out
- maryrosecook 19y ago
  Insanely cheap (nice meal out = 5 Euros), loads of alternative stuff: squats, parties, gigs etc. Very young, very friendly. Not sure about the start-up scene.
- wheels 19y ago
  I've just started mingling in the Berlin startup scene: There's a lot of copying of the American tech market, retargeted towards a German market. That makes some investors here a bit conservative since "the proven model" is so unambitious. But there are VCs and Angels here in town and quite a few startups. Living is freakishly cheap for a European metropolis and in general it's a very attractive place to live. Here's a map of startups registered on Deutsche Startups: http://www.deutsche-startups.de/2007/11/29/berlin-ist-die-startup-hauptstadt/ http://www.deutsche-startups.de/2007/11/29/berlin-ist-die-st...
pkaler 19y ago
I live in Vancouver and just started a game studio. http://smartfulstudios.com http://smartfulstudios.com Bureaucracy is not a problem. I'm not sure what you mean by that. There is tons of government help with SRED, IRAP, the Renaissance Fund, and Telefilm New Media Fund. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/taxcredit/sred/menu-e.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/taxcredit/sred/menu-e.html http://irap-pari.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ http://irap-pari.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ http://www.cse.gov.bc.ca/ProgramsAndServices/BusinessServices/Investment_Capital/default.htm http://www.cse.gov.bc.ca/ProgramsAndServices/BusinessService... http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/03/311.asp?fond_id=3 http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/03/311.asp?fond_id=3 With UBC and SFU, there is a lot of tech and business talent. Vancouver Film School and Emily Carr add to the art talent. Since we have universal health insurance, and a fairly decent social safety net, it is actually cheaper to provide benefits to your employees in a lot of cases. Vancouver is an expensive city to live in. But definitely not as expensive as the valley. The infrastructure is good. I can get a 50Mbps internet connection in my apartment. The women are gorgeous and fit. Skiing, sailing, golfing, climbing, hiking amenities are close by. Yeah, it drizzles for 4 months of the year. But you get used to it. The VCs are very approachable. Send any of them an email with the subject header, "30 Minute, no harm, no foul meeting" and they will hear you out. If you're trying to get from zero to fundable, check out my friends over at Bootup Labs. http://bootuplabs.com/ http://bootuplabs.com/
- huhtenberg 19y ago
  I can echo what pkaler said. I personally received a handful of unsolicited phone calls from local VCs (including Growthworks and Ventures West - the one with Paul Kedrosky) asking for a meeting. All based on a couple of posts in high-profile blogs. It does drizzle in a winter, but (a) that's actually helpful if you need to work :) (b) Whistler is just an hour away. There's also Okanagan Valley 400 km to the east, which is our smaller version of Napa Valley. What's completely out of whack here is a real estate market. 500 sqft condo in downtown may easily cost 700k and CAD:USD is now 1:1. The correction of the market has already started, sales are slumping, inventory is spiking, but it would probably take at least a year for prices to start really falling. I'm mentioning this because this causes certain problem with rentals availability and this problem may actually worsen. Especially in Downtown. Make sure to research this subject prior to making a decision. Another note is regarding the labor laws. BC actually has a funny law saying that if an employee owns a company share or is on an stock purchase plan - they are considered co-owners of the company and therefore are not eligible for an overtime pay. Allegedly this law was passed specifically to stimulate high-tech industry. Lastly, if you haven't visited Vancouver before, I would strongly recommend a surveying visit. This is not a megapolis, it's not fast paced nor is it expansive. This may require adapting to.
itay 19y ago
You could also try Israel - anywhere between Haifa and Tel Aviv. Living costs are much lower, it is easier to get work visas, and the entire tech sector is based around a startup mentality. It also has a vibrant VC community.
plaggypig 19y ago
Baghdad, Iraq - although it may be "slightly" dangerous and has no dependable infrastructure, if you manage to get up and running successfully then you'll receive tens of millions of dollars worth of free publicity from freedom-loving news media and be the new darling of Silicon Valley upon your safe return. Risk/reward is probably about what VC's are used to anyway!
pierrefar 19y ago
I would strongly suggest Cambridge, UK. Lots of good VCs, great talent pool, and close to London.
mlinsey 19y ago
Go wherever you have access to the best talent pool. If you know lots of good people where you currently are, that's as good a place as any.
symptic 19y ago
I think people focus too much on the wheres and hows and who's too much when coming up with an idea and building it. What it comes down to is -will you actually bring this idea into a reality-? Get it made. Get it out. Then move if the need arises.
- nraynaud 19y ago
  I moved by the sea to create my venture, I'm not shooting to get rich quick, I want a better life. For me getting a better life meant going surfing as much as possible. I can't imagine throwing everything for my startup, I already left behind my friend, familly and my ex-girlfriend, I won't kill my way of living standard too. I suppose it is legitimate for other people to seek a place on other criteria like where I find VCs or other people like me or mountain, or night clubs etc. and do their venture for a living.
- aditya 19y ago
  True. But, if you're looking to quit your day job and move to an immigration friendly country, being in a startup hub there is definitely a big plus.
ideas101 19y ago
Canada is a great place for a startup except VCs - if u r planning to get VC involved then u might have a tough time ... u may certainly get the meeting appointment but not the funds. Also angel funding is minimum. I don't know what kind of corporation u need to form (compared to Delaware C/S corp) but it may not be as advantageous as Delaware corp. Legal and tax laws are very straight forward. Proximity to USA will certainly help but dont know whether VCs from US would be interested in canadian firm ... if u r planning to hire hackers then u can find best brains here.
ideas101 19y ago
also visit http://www.startupnorth.ca/ http://www.startupnorth.ca/
raju 19y ago
Hey Aditya, This may sound off topic, but I followed your profile to your website so that I could find a way to contact you offline. Unfortunately, I could not get to the About page (and could not go to any of the articles or the comments page). So i am resorting to dropping you a line here. I was hoping we could talk, so drop me a email if you are interested. Email's in my profile. Oh! And thanks for posting this question. I too was thinking along similar lines, and this answered some.
- aditya 19y ago
  Couldn't see your email, but I've added mine to my profile -- feel free to drop me a note!
jaaron 19y ago
Hong Kong Pros: Modern city, great public transportation, access to China, low taxes, cheap and easy to setup business Cons: Very small (but growing!) tech sector, limited and competitive market for local skilled employees, few tech VCs, cost of living can be (but doesn't have to be) expensive. I'd love to hear from anyone interested in the Hong Kong startup scene. (farra-NOSPAM at apache dot org)
- yeti 18y ago
  I'd agree with this. Good tax system, government support, close to China etc... let me know if you need any feedback, my startup is based here
menloparkbum 19y ago
I'm unfamiliar with how the rest of the world works when it comes to immigration and entrepreneurship. Is it difficult to start a startup in Canada or London if you aren't already Canadian or a resident of the UK?
- aditya 19y ago
  Both Canada and the UK are much easier to _immigrate_ to (especially if you're well educated) compared to the US, which was the original reason behind starting this thread. I think you can get your permanent resident status in both countries in < 2 years, whereas in the US it could take anywhere from 2-8 years depending on where you're from (really bad if you're Indian/Chinese) and what phase the moon is in :)
  - sl956 19y ago
    Depends where you are from. In the UK, it can be up to 5 years before getting permanent resident status.
aditya 19y ago
BTW, Where are all the UK startuppers? I know Auctomatic was founded there, then moved to the valley and now to Vancouver...
pageman 19y ago
what about Madrid, Spain? http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/smbusiness/small_global_spain.fsb/ http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/smbusiness/small_global_spai...
manmanic 19y ago
From an economic perspective, you want somewhere with a high standard of living (to support the necessary infrastructure), but a low cost of living (the $ you make over the Internet are disconnected from the local economy.) On this basis the UK is far from ideal - it's an expensive country where the $ doesn't get you far. For this reason the talent in London goes into banking, law and medicine, where the fat salaries are. Tiger economies like Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan and Israel are much better suited - they offer advanced tech infrastructure, but a much lower cost of living. In Israel for example, the talented head for tech in their droves, since it's the best paying sector in the economy.
- yeti 18y ago
  I agree, HK is great - low cost and good infrastructure, access to great, English speaking and globally aware talent

27 points by aditya 19y ago

xenoterracide 19y ago

well I (here in US) finally found a co-founder (which I hope turns out to be a good decision) in the UK. I'm not sure how we're going to make it work, but I think on advantage may be that if he gets venture capital in the UK it's worth ~twice as much if I spend it here.

akuhn 19y ago

Switzerland!!!

nraynaud 19y ago
Yes, I spent 2 years by the Swiss border and I went there a couple of times, it seems a fine country but expensive (and the interesting part speaks german, and they are not in the euro area). They have very good public transportation system, banks everywhere (but I don't know about VC stuff), mountains.

wallflower 19y ago

Strongly considering Argentina. Pros: No work visa required. Affordable lifestyle (eating out, tango clubs, outdoor events, music). Cost of living fairly low ($10k/yr reasonable living burn rate), Buenos Aires one of the world's largest metropolitan areas. Burgeoning expatriate population (pro or con, depending). Cons: Distance from family and friends (but some have said they'd love to visit!). Distance from established networks. Virtual business dealings. You need to learn another language to effectively be part of the community (not a programming one, a real language, Spanish and maybe their local hybrid).

nraynaud 19y ago
The last time a friend of mine went there for work (I personally only went there for an internship with a 90days tourist visa to avoid embassy bullshit), they asked him to apply for a visa with a bureaucracy like the one we have here in France : "you have to go back to France to apply for the visa there in the Paris embassy". If you want a economically more active country, you might consider Chile too, but I don't know anything about visas there.
- wallflower 19y ago
  Hmm. Good to know. Overstaying tourist visas seems like a gray area.
  - nraynaud 19y ago
    I don't know, I stayed in the legal area. I was in Mendoza, so I went to Chile 2 week-ends to get a new 90 days visa each time, but I was legal : my internship wasn't compensated.

kirubakaran 19y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=129037 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=129037

truebosko 19y ago

Who cares where you startup? Some of the best startups have come from non-startup towns, like Shopify.com from Ottawa But to support the topic, here's some cities in eastern Canada where I think the startup culture is growing/swell: - Toronto, Ontario Pros: Great community, lots of get togethers and Barcamps. Good overall scene Cons: Crappy weather, rent and space costs are high. - Waterloo, Ontario Pros: Good community (Been to several Startup meets), a lot of younger people (It's a town with two major Universities in it plus a college) and a lot of cool more tech-oriented startups coming out of it. Cost of living is pretty cheap, nice small town. Lots of VC's in the area from what I've seen Cons: Perhaps a bit TOO small of a town (Only 90,000 people) - Montreal, Ontario Pros: Great european culture in the city itself. Awesome startup scene with lots of get togethers. Great technology and apps coming out of it already. Lots of people deeming Montreal the "Silicon Valley of Canada" (And yes, I know it can't compare AT ALL). Pretty cheap considering how big it is Cons: The city itself may not be for some people. Very busy. Hope that helps. Go Canada startups! :-)

ojbyrne 19y ago
Better speak French if you choose Montreal because of the language laws. Otherwise you might be in for a shock when you discover that speaking English is not an acceptable job requirement.
- wallflower 19y ago
  My friend has been studying French for years and is quaking at the thought of the Test de connaissance du français
- truebosko 19y ago
  That's true, but a lot of people in the core of Montreal also speak fluent English and there doesn't seem to be much attitude towards English speaking people (in that area) And hey, French isn't too hard to learn :)
  - ojbyrne 19y ago
    I'm a Bill 101 refugee (yes I'm old!) but I really loved living in Montreal. Other than the language issues (and you're probably correct in downplaying them) it's a great city. And (other than the language issues) a great place for startups.

m0nty 19y ago

You might find the UK is about to have a "nasty turn" WRT the lending crisis, increasing inflation and rising fuel costs. Taxes are very high also, and the government seem a bit clueless about the relationship between high earners and entrepreneurship, eg: http://telegraph.decenturl.com/non-domicile-tax-charge http://telegraph.decenturl.com/non-domicile-tax-charge All in all, not a bad place to live and do business but it might get worse, not better, for a few years.

sharpshoot 19y ago

London actually is starting to trump Boston in terms of Startup community quality. Strong in online advertising, gaming and mobile sectors. Super high quality investors here (Atomico, Index, Accel). Its expensive here, but if you want to take on an untapped market and expand your horizons, this is a tough yet good place to start.

lanej0 19y ago

Hey, I take exception to the bad weather comment! We're currently having a very nice spring. Lots of flowers. Yeah, I think the Valley has a certain magic to it, but if you're outside of there, and have no plans to move, it doesn't really matter where you end up. I've got a friend that moved to Panama (not to do a startup, but to work remotely). He loves it because his cost of living is low, it's got great infrastructure and a very nice climate.

mixmax 19y ago
And don't forget a great banking sytem. ;-)

tom_rath 19y ago

Canada is very business friendly, so drop that 'bureaucracy' concern. Forming a corporation took about 24 hours, with most of that time spent waiting for corporate name approval. Everything (except for getting a lawyer to notarize a form -- about $25 or so and five minutes of my time) was done online and there are TONS of resources to help start up. I think I spent around $200 in total to get all the corporate paperwork filed -- it was trivial. This site will provide all the information you need: http://corporationscanada.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/Intro http://corporationscanada.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/Intr... Annual corporate paperwork takes me just a few minutes each year (all done online) and taxes are likewise easy to put together. Any questions I've had about the company, taxes, etc. were quickly answered either through the Corporations Canada web site or after a brief e-mail dashed off to their contact e-mail address. As a sole founder of a software startup, I really couldn't be happier at my (by accident of birth) choice of nation. I've been able to just focus on building a business and quickly deal with the legal and tax stuff as minimally needed.

mixmax 19y ago

Does anyone have any experiences about Berlin? I'm thinking about going there.

davidw 19y ago
YC user 'wheels' is there - ask him (he's often on #startups, too).
- danw 19y ago
  What's #startups?
  - davidw 19y ago
    IRC: irc.freenode.net, channel #startups
    - danw 19y ago
      Cheers, I'll check it out
maryrosecook 19y ago
Insanely cheap (nice meal out = 5 Euros), loads of alternative stuff: squats, parties, gigs etc. Very young, very friendly. Not sure about the start-up scene.
wheels 19y ago
I've just started mingling in the Berlin startup scene: There's a lot of copying of the American tech market, retargeted towards a German market. That makes some investors here a bit conservative since "the proven model" is so unambitious. But there are VCs and Angels here in town and quite a few startups. Living is freakishly cheap for a European metropolis and in general it's a very attractive place to live. Here's a map of startups registered on Deutsche Startups: http://www.deutsche-startups.de/2007/11/29/berlin-ist-die-startup-hauptstadt/ http://www.deutsche-startups.de/2007/11/29/berlin-ist-die-st...

pkaler 19y ago

I live in Vancouver and just started a game studio. http://smartfulstudios.com http://smartfulstudios.com Bureaucracy is not a problem. I'm not sure what you mean by that. There is tons of government help with SRED, IRAP, the Renaissance Fund, and Telefilm New Media Fund. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/taxcredit/sred/menu-e.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/taxcredit/sred/menu-e.html http://irap-pari.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ http://irap-pari.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ http://www.cse.gov.bc.ca/ProgramsAndServices/BusinessServices/Investment_Capital/default.htm http://www.cse.gov.bc.ca/ProgramsAndServices/BusinessService... http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/03/311.asp?fond_id=3 http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/03/311.asp?fond_id=3 With UBC and SFU, there is a lot of tech and business talent. Vancouver Film School and Emily Carr add to the art talent. Since we have universal health insurance, and a fairly decent social safety net, it is actually cheaper to provide benefits to your employees in a lot of cases. Vancouver is an expensive city to live in. But definitely not as expensive as the valley. The infrastructure is good. I can get a 50Mbps internet connection in my apartment. The women are gorgeous and fit. Skiing, sailing, golfing, climbing, hiking amenities are close by. Yeah, it drizzles for 4 months of the year. But you get used to it. The VCs are very approachable. Send any of them an email with the subject header, "30 Minute, no harm, no foul meeting" and they will hear you out. If you're trying to get from zero to fundable, check out my friends over at Bootup Labs. http://bootuplabs.com/ http://bootuplabs.com/

huhtenberg 19y ago
I can echo what pkaler said. I personally received a handful of unsolicited phone calls from local VCs (including Growthworks and Ventures West - the one with Paul Kedrosky) asking for a meeting. All based on a couple of posts in high-profile blogs. It does drizzle in a winter, but (a) that's actually helpful if you need to work :) (b) Whistler is just an hour away. There's also Okanagan Valley 400 km to the east, which is our smaller version of Napa Valley. What's completely out of whack here is a real estate market. 500 sqft condo in downtown may easily cost 700k and CAD:USD is now 1:1. The correction of the market has already started, sales are slumping, inventory is spiking, but it would probably take at least a year for prices to start really falling. I'm mentioning this because this causes certain problem with rentals availability and this problem may actually worsen. Especially in Downtown. Make sure to research this subject prior to making a decision. Another note is regarding the labor laws. BC actually has a funny law saying that if an employee owns a company share or is on an stock purchase plan - they are considered co-owners of the company and therefore are not eligible for an overtime pay. Allegedly this law was passed specifically to stimulate high-tech industry. Lastly, if you haven't visited Vancouver before, I would strongly recommend a surveying visit. This is not a megapolis, it's not fast paced nor is it expansive. This may require adapting to.

itay 19y ago

You could also try Israel - anywhere between Haifa and Tel Aviv. Living costs are much lower, it is easier to get work visas, and the entire tech sector is based around a startup mentality. It also has a vibrant VC community.

plaggypig 19y ago

Baghdad, Iraq - although it may be "slightly" dangerous and has no dependable infrastructure, if you manage to get up and running successfully then you'll receive tens of millions of dollars worth of free publicity from freedom-loving news media and be the new darling of Silicon Valley upon your safe return. Risk/reward is probably about what VC's are used to anyway!

pierrefar 19y ago

I would strongly suggest Cambridge, UK. Lots of good VCs, great talent pool, and close to London.

mlinsey 19y ago

Go wherever you have access to the best talent pool. If you know lots of good people where you currently are, that's as good a place as any.

symptic 19y ago

I think people focus too much on the wheres and hows and who's too much when coming up with an idea and building it. What it comes down to is -will you actually bring this idea into a reality-? Get it made. Get it out. Then move if the need arises.

nraynaud 19y ago
I moved by the sea to create my venture, I'm not shooting to get rich quick, I want a better life. For me getting a better life meant going surfing as much as possible. I can't imagine throwing everything for my startup, I already left behind my friend, familly and my ex-girlfriend, I won't kill my way of living standard too. I suppose it is legitimate for other people to seek a place on other criteria like where I find VCs or other people like me or mountain, or night clubs etc. and do their venture for a living.
aditya 19y ago
True. But, if you're looking to quit your day job and move to an immigration friendly country, being in a startup hub there is definitely a big plus.

ideas101 19y ago

Canada is a great place for a startup except VCs - if u r planning to get VC involved then u might have a tough time ... u may certainly get the meeting appointment but not the funds. Also angel funding is minimum. I don't know what kind of corporation u need to form (compared to Delaware C/S corp) but it may not be as advantageous as Delaware corp. Legal and tax laws are very straight forward. Proximity to USA will certainly help but dont know whether VCs from US would be interested in canadian firm ... if u r planning to hire hackers then u can find best brains here.

ideas101 19y ago

also visit http://www.startupnorth.ca/ http://www.startupnorth.ca/

raju 19y ago

Hey Aditya, This may sound off topic, but I followed your profile to your website so that I could find a way to contact you offline. Unfortunately, I could not get to the About page (and could not go to any of the articles or the comments page). So i am resorting to dropping you a line here. I was hoping we could talk, so drop me a email if you are interested. Email's in my profile. Oh! And thanks for posting this question. I too was thinking along similar lines, and this answered some.

aditya 19y ago
Couldn't see your email, but I've added mine to my profile -- feel free to drop me a note!

jaaron 19y ago

Hong Kong Pros: Modern city, great public transportation, access to China, low taxes, cheap and easy to setup business Cons: Very small (but growing!) tech sector, limited and competitive market for local skilled employees, few tech VCs, cost of living can be (but doesn't have to be) expensive. I'd love to hear from anyone interested in the Hong Kong startup scene. (farra-NOSPAM at apache dot org)

yeti 18y ago
I'd agree with this. Good tax system, government support, close to China etc... let me know if you need any feedback, my startup is based here

menloparkbum 19y ago

I'm unfamiliar with how the rest of the world works when it comes to immigration and entrepreneurship. Is it difficult to start a startup in Canada or London if you aren't already Canadian or a resident of the UK?

aditya 19y ago
Both Canada and the UK are much easier to _immigrate_ to (especially if you're well educated) compared to the US, which was the original reason behind starting this thread. I think you can get your permanent resident status in both countries in < 2 years, whereas in the US it could take anywhere from 2-8 years depending on where you're from (really bad if you're Indian/Chinese) and what phase the moon is in :)
- sl956 19y ago
  Depends where you are from. In the UK, it can be up to 5 years before getting permanent resident status.

aditya 19y ago

BTW, Where are all the UK startuppers? I know Auctomatic was founded there, then moved to the valley and now to Vancouver...

pageman 19y ago

what about Madrid, Spain? http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/smbusiness/small_global_spain.fsb/ http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/smbusiness/small_global_spai...

manmanic 19y ago

From an economic perspective, you want somewhere with a high standard of living (to support the necessary infrastructure), but a low cost of living (the $ you make over the Internet are disconnected from the local economy.) On this basis the UK is far from ideal - it's an expensive country where the $ doesn't get you far. For this reason the talent in London goes into banking, law and medicine, where the fat salaries are. Tiger economies like Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan and Israel are much better suited - they offer advanced tech infrastructure, but a much lower cost of living. In Israel for example, the talented head for tech in their droves, since it's the best paying sector in the economy.

yeti 18y ago
I agree, HK is great - low cost and good infrastructure, access to great, English speaking and globally aware talent