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That’s a great article, and rather eye-opening. Juul may help cigarette smokers get away from tobacco, but wow — stories about teens and young adults taking Ju

That’s a great article, and rather eye-opening. Juul may help cigarette smokers get away from tobacco, but wow — stories about teens and young adults taking Juul hits every 10-15 minutes are something else. That’s just plain addiction, taking them far beyond the threshold of diminishing returns, even for caffeine-like self-medication. There’s definitely a lot of money in creating addictions... this can’t be a long-term, net good to society the way it’s heading now.

stefan_ 8y ago
Kids taking Juul hits every 10-15 minutes are not driving and are not drinking alcohol, so there is your public health benefit already, mostly in the former. If you're gonna be opposed to some fidget spinner infatuation on "think about the kids" public health concerns, start at what actually kills kids.
- Splines 8y ago
  If you're going to pick something to say "Kids doing X don't drink a drive", vaping would probably be pretty low on that list.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  > start at what actually kills kids Sounds like you’re categorically ignoring whatever negative things don’t directly kill people... well-being encompasses a lot more than not dying.
EpicEng 8y ago
And when I was in school half the kids smoked cigarrettes. I have no idea what the numbers are, but you have to consider that fewer kids are using tobacco, which is a good thing.
- trentlott 8y ago
  Well, it depends. As far as I remember, the vehicle is propylene glycol. It isn't biologically inert, and I'm not sure how much work has been done to study buildup within the lungs or combustion products. Combine that with dodgy sourcing allowing metal contamination. It seems more or less the definition of trading the devil you know for one you don't.
  - tonypace 8y ago
    There are a lot of studies about inhaling PG in the context of smoke machines (in bars, generally). It reduces lung function, but not permanently. No more serious harm seems to be indicated.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      Also, PG has been used in ventilation systems as an air sanitizer for decades. Not a 1:1 comparison given the massively increased volume papers get, but it's something.
      - singingfish 8y ago
        There's literature back to the 1930s about workers inhalation of VG and PG vapour in volume in an industrial setting. From memory, there are consequences but not associated with the chronic degenerative health conditions associated with cigarette smoking. An examination of the molecular biology of VG and PG suggests its quite difficult to find bad things they would do that would be associated with the chronic degenerative health conditions associated with smoking.
- pdpi 8y ago
  False dichotomy. Tobacco smoking was on a downwards trend before vaping anyhow (it just plain stopped being “cool”) so clearly you don’t need vaping as alternative to reduce tobacco usage.
pssflops 8y ago
My younger brother, over 18, is rather fond of his Juul and I don't quite understand why. My parents smoked while raising my sister and I, which I believe contributed to our fascination and addiction to cigarettes; but they had quit long before having him. I've worked my way off but after seeing what vaping has done to my brother from what appears to be social (peer) pressure, I'm not certain if it has provided any net benefit to this point.
ShabbosGoy 8y ago
To be honest, nicotine has cognitive enhancing effects. Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects (aside from vasoconstriction, but it’s a stimulant); the main risk comes from the unknown effects of long term exposure to inhaled chemicals like propelyne glycol/vegetable glycerin. These chemicals are approved as food additives, though.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  > Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects I think it’s normal to consider dependency and major withdrawals when stopping as pretty detrimental effects, whether or not any other symptoms are involved. Not that everyone is bothered by that, but folks needing to vape every 10 minutes have a severely lowered quality of life (or the risk of having one), in my opinion — if only because their habit gets in the way of other things, or perhaps they forget their pod pack and have an incredibly bad day. I think that could be a whole lot worse than not having one’s morning cup of coffee.
  - jjeaff 8y ago
    Not to mention the very questionable morality of selling a product engineered to hopelessly addict your customers.

stefan_ 8y ago

Kids taking Juul hits every 10-15 minutes are not driving and are not drinking alcohol, so there is your public health benefit already, mostly in the former. If you're gonna be opposed to some fidget spinner infatuation on "think about the kids" public health concerns, start at what actually kills kids.

Splines 8y ago
If you're going to pick something to say "Kids doing X don't drink a drive", vaping would probably be pretty low on that list.
TimTheTinker 8y ago
> start at what actually kills kids Sounds like you’re categorically ignoring whatever negative things don’t directly kill people... well-being encompasses a lot more than not dying.

EpicEng 8y ago

And when I was in school half the kids smoked cigarrettes. I have no idea what the numbers are, but you have to consider that fewer kids are using tobacco, which is a good thing.

trentlott 8y ago
Well, it depends. As far as I remember, the vehicle is propylene glycol. It isn't biologically inert, and I'm not sure how much work has been done to study buildup within the lungs or combustion products. Combine that with dodgy sourcing allowing metal contamination. It seems more or less the definition of trading the devil you know for one you don't.
- tonypace 8y ago
  There are a lot of studies about inhaling PG in the context of smoke machines (in bars, generally). It reduces lung function, but not permanently. No more serious harm seems to be indicated.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    Also, PG has been used in ventilation systems as an air sanitizer for decades. Not a 1:1 comparison given the massively increased volume papers get, but it's something.
    - singingfish 8y ago
      There's literature back to the 1930s about workers inhalation of VG and PG vapour in volume in an industrial setting. From memory, there are consequences but not associated with the chronic degenerative health conditions associated with cigarette smoking. An examination of the molecular biology of VG and PG suggests its quite difficult to find bad things they would do that would be associated with the chronic degenerative health conditions associated with smoking.
pdpi 8y ago
False dichotomy. Tobacco smoking was on a downwards trend before vaping anyhow (it just plain stopped being “cool”) so clearly you don’t need vaping as alternative to reduce tobacco usage.

pssflops 8y ago

My younger brother, over 18, is rather fond of his Juul and I don't quite understand why. My parents smoked while raising my sister and I, which I believe contributed to our fascination and addiction to cigarettes; but they had quit long before having him. I've worked my way off but after seeing what vaping has done to my brother from what appears to be social (peer) pressure, I'm not certain if it has provided any net benefit to this point.

ShabbosGoy 8y ago

To be honest, nicotine has cognitive enhancing effects. Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects (aside from vasoconstriction, but it’s a stimulant); the main risk comes from the unknown effects of long term exposure to inhaled chemicals like propelyne glycol/vegetable glycerin. These chemicals are approved as food additives, though.

TimTheTinker 8y ago
> Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects I think it’s normal to consider dependency and major withdrawals when stopping as pretty detrimental effects, whether or not any other symptoms are involved. Not that everyone is bothered by that, but folks needing to vape every 10 minutes have a severely lowered quality of life (or the risk of having one), in my opinion — if only because their habit gets in the way of other things, or perhaps they forget their pod pack and have an incredibly bad day. I think that could be a whole lot worse than not having one’s morning cup of coffee.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  Not to mention the very questionable morality of selling a product engineered to hopelessly addict your customers.